We here all realize the limits of logic and empiricism. These approaches are at best only half of human potential. But they are vital for clear thought, even when the subject is non-rational means of perception. What is real defined as simply what each person thinks it is becomes a relativism where any belief is equally valid. As if war, hate, depression, materialism and ignorance were "truths." Sure, categories are artificial. But we need some way of processing information, and that means useful definitions. Limits to what a word can mean.

"The laws of physics don't apply in other dimensions" This implies omniscience-- knowing all other possible dimensions, knowing more than almost any experienced adept familiar with altered consciousness or other dimensions, and of course knowing more than any physicist. Including the entire set of the laws of physics. Claiming these laws don't apply is an assertion, not an explanation. So is the term non-physical. Don't conclude from this I haven't been there and so don't understand. I have-- off and on for nearly 60 years. All the way past galaxies to what appeared to be the end of the universe. What I'm questioning is certainly about one's own mental constructs.

The use of terms like "lower mind, soul/higher self, intuition, merging with oneness", etc. They seem to refer to something-- but what? Systems like Jewish Kabbalah, the magick of Golden Dawn, traditional western theology, alchemy, Christian mysticism and Hermeticism do not agree with each other. But at least within any one discipline, their terminology is as precise as possible. For example, the word "soul." In Greek, the word is psyche-- it is a nuanced concept that means what we think of as soul, along with what can be called the personal psychological, and a life force. In Kabbalah, called Yetzirah.

"Collective consciousness" may be more usefully considered as Mind. In Greek, nous. The noosphere of Teilhard de Chardin. In Kabbalah, Briah. In the work of Carl Jung and his interpreters like Joseph Campbell, collective unconsciousness, the source of psychological and mythological symbolism. On the thinking (left brain) side, it may be what the biochemist Rupert Sheldrake calls morphogenetic fields.

Beyond them is is the absolute Divine, Atziluth, Pneuma. The human soul and its personal consciousness can only bear this in very limited experiences. The finite cannot hold the infinite for very long. "Long" of course being a 4-D relativity. But if you don't think limits apply, feel free. Just be aware that mental hospitals are full of mystics.

BTW, "unity" and "oneness" are by definition the experience of no divisions, no separation. Thus nothing by which to make comparisons, including about unity. The cessation of a illusory individuality. The eastern mystics value the drop merging back into its ocean source. Complex communications are a distraction and ultimately false. The western mystics value the individual drop as enabled to be in relation to other individuals and to the Infinite Divine. If Something is seeking to connect, then implied is that there is something worth connecting to. That multiplicity and individuality--the drops--are also valued. A fuzzy appeal to oneness is incomplete.

Other implications in "quality information" as related to the chaneller's "high vibrations". Anyone able to judge this for sure is way above any of us ordinary mortals. This logic also works in effect to define skeptical questions as reactions of the spiritually immature.

Worst of all IMO, is the New Age tendency towards a superficial desire for everything to be simply a matter of sunshiny sweetness. About vibes. Or karma. Or creating your own reality. Of course well-being and compassion are wonderful in this difficult world!! But this can all to easily slide into a version of blame the victim. To deny any impact by unfair social structures. And to merely offer "The Power of Positive Thinking" in tie-dye dress. Spiritual evolution and wisdom aren't about denying darkness. Be they bad vibes, repressed personal characteristics, the horrifying events of history. Or what Kabbalah names as the qlippoth, Tibetan Buddhists call the wrathful deities. Every traditional spiritual approach and the independent western esoteric disciplines are clear about that.

Yes, discernment is vital. So is being honest about the requirement for hard work. Maybe even of risking suffering. Certainly of making errors. That great dark abyss is not bridged by denial.

Hi there, jujiki/Tudor! Welcome to IS. Where we indigos and other people who have had to live with being different find a place to support each other and share information.

Sure, I'm grateful for the decades of experiences, good and bad, that have turned out to be essential for spiritual development. But truth is, in junior high (middle school) I would have sold my soul to be popular. The desire to fit in is normal-- we need each other to survive; in a way, conforming is instinctive. I was simply incapable of seeming normal. More self-aware or psycho-spiritually evolved people actually choose to opt out of repressive social conventions.

Your account sounds like someone who has the ESP empathic gift. Some years ago, I was describing to a friend an incident that was confusing to me. He said "oh, you mean you aren't sure whose feelings you're feeling!" Exactly. BTW, he's a crystal, even more sensitive than we indigos. He can't screen this stuff out of his awareness like many of us indigos learn to do. He has coped by becoming a very learned member of a religious order and a skilled spiritual director. He doesn't have to be in constant contact with the harsh so-called normal world.

You are aware enough to realize the source of damage. Frankly, there isn't any way around the problem. In order to really take off spiritually, the weight dragging you down has to be untied. But there is no rule that you have to deal with everything all at once. Or that everything proceeds in neat little steps. I had many deep spiritual experiences before I went back to seek psychological help so as to clear the garbage as best I could.

If you read posts at IS, you'll find many claiming everything is about sweetness and light. Variations on 'The Secret" and other superficial versions of positive thinking. As if wishing it were so makes the darkness disappear. The world does exist even if you don't look. Same for facile assertions that you make your own reality or it's all about karma. Just another way of blaming the victim. And of imposing guilt-- not the traditional concept of sin, but as the New Age version where if everything isn't sunshiny, you're a spiritual failure.

IMHO, some of the damage of childhood may never heal. Those wounds remind us we're part of the human experience. Reduces the temptation towards spiritual pride, of thinking that our indigo abilities make us better than the ignorant masses. We are not required to reach impossible standards of perfection. For me, it's been really helpful in prayer or meditation to ask that I am helped to pursue my calling to the best of my ability. I've found that comforting, a confirmation that we are loved by the Infinite Divine "as is."

Your age means you are coming up on your first Saturn return. (google the term.) That's when Saturn transits where it was on your natal chart. It's a trial not to be taken lightly... pun intended. Saturn is the encounter with your own dark elements. Separation, limitation, the death of childhood. But notice that boundaries are necessary in order to know who you are. And the resistance to change that Saturn represents is also respect for structure and tradition. You have to have a well-defined sense of individuality, aka ego, before you can effectively go beyond it.

The best person to read on this stuff is Robert Anton Wilson. Even if his books (and website) are a bit dated. Great fun and a great way to learn to think clearly. He covered everything from conspiracy theories to altered consciousness to Fortean phenomena. Much odd info by which we observe our own reactions. To help us break out of our own automatic patterns. In order to develop an open mind while maintaining a healthy skepticism.

For example, I've "seen" the small scary grey aliens. Also the tall purple-blue variety. Am I therefore willing to conclude that aliens are experimenting on us? Or that interstellar or interdimensional beings are physically real? No. Because I realize that whatever I see comes from stimuli inputted by sense organs, processed by the brain (and/or mind) and interpreted through a complex web of my own learning, creativity, beliefs, and conditioning by the community in which I was raised. If I were in Celtic country, especially centuries ago, I'd probably see leprechauns and gnomes.

IMO, the ESP stuff is solid. Most people on this site accept it because of their own experiences. There is also a mountain of good scientific data going back to the 1920s. The J B Rhine experiments at Duke, Targ and Putoff at the Stanford Research Institute, and the Journal of Paranormal Research. Conformist science rejects ESP on the grounds that there is no medium of transmission that explains how it works. In plain English, since they know ahead of time that it can't be true, it isn't.

Personally, I'm a bit leary of OBEs and astral travel. How can we know where we are exactly? Presuming something is up there, out there, whatever, how can a lesser being avoid being manipulated? Exploration is fun, and studying other realms may help with spritual development. But remember that myth of Icarus who flew too near the sun with his man-made wings. The Greek word is hubris. The shamanic and occult traditions are clear about the need for years of study and discipline.

As you've likely discovered, some of the claims on this site are questionable. For example, some fad term comes along which makes those of us who have been bullied for being different seem very special instead. We indigos are the ultra evolved. Uh huh. Or starseeds-- a great explanation for us weirdos who feel like we don't belong. NOTE: I'm not saying this is false, only that we should be aware of our own preferences and motivations.

I'm really, really skeptical of anything channeled. As Robert Anton Wilson said, all it proves is that the dead or the disembodied are just as superficial or boring as the embodied. Notice that none of this material is anywhere near the caliber of the world's great religious traditions. Or the writings of experienced mystics and esotericists.

If some Bible thumper insisted that we believe because he says so, we'd find that ridiculous. Why then assent to something that has no corroboration? That's a problem with even the first rate clairvoyants like Mme. Blavatsky or Rudolf Steiner. Let alone the Seth material or the really dubious stuff like Ramtha or your star system of preference-- Arcturus, Sirius, Alpha Centauri, Aldebaron. Each purveyor of alien "wisdom" seems unaware of the others. Besides, even if we are galactic children, let us learn for ourselves. That Prime Directive of Star Trek is very likely the policy of any truly decent advanced species.

You know who you are. If this energy signature / watermark resonates with you, PM me.

I've been on IS for years; haven't posted lately because I'm writing a book. It's an experiential approach to spiritual evolution based on a model of Christian Kabbalah. Yeah, I have had many mystical encounters. And I've taken the time (decades) to confirm experience by good scholarship and research.

However, way too many of us older people have been accused of not listening. It's true, and I admit I'm guilty.

So my question is: what do you young Indigos and Crystals need from us? For example, confirmation of ESP? Or interpretations of spiritual experiences? Or help developing mystical gifts? Or basic maps of the territory so you can do your own exploring?

I'm also interested in ideas and personal experiences you think older people do not seem to be aware of.