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♥ A Dream To Share ♥ Indigo Island ♥

This is a discussion on ♥ A Dream To Share ♥ Indigo Island ♥ in the Indigo Cafe forums; ♥ More news............ http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/11/21/PacificGarbagePatch/ Earth's Eighth Continent North Pacific Gyre traps flotsam. It swirls. It grows. It's a massive, floating ...

 
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:56 AM
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More news............

http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/11/21/PacificGarbagePatch/

Earth's Eighth Continent
North Pacific Gyre traps flotsam. It swirls. It grows. It's a massive, floating 'garbage patch.'
By David Reid
Published: November 21, 2007


The Phoenix
Located in the Pacific Ocean between California and Hawaii and measuring in at roughly twice the size of Texas, this elusive mass is home to hundreds of species of marine life and is constantly expanding. It has tripled in size since the middle of the 1990s and could grow tenfold in the next decade.

Although no official title has been given to the mass yet, a popular label thus far has been "The Great Pacific Garbage Patch."

As suggested by the name, the island is almost entirely comprises human-made trash. It currently weighs approximately 3.5 million tons with a concentration of 3.34 million pieces of garbage per square kilometer, 80 per cent of which is plastic.

Due to the Patch's location in the North Pacific Gyre, its growth is guaranteed to continue as this Africa-sized section of ocean spins in a vortex that effectively traps flotsam.

Few visitors

The cause for the Patch's relative lack of acknowledgment is that the portion of the Pacific it occupies is almost entirely unvisited. It lacks the wind to attract sailing vessels, the biology to encourage fishing, and is not in the path of major shipping lanes.

What little air movement there is blows inwards, further trapping the garbage.

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According to an article in the San Francisco Chronicle, Marcus Eriksen, a director at the Algatita Marine Research Foundation, said that "with the winds blowing in and the currents in the gyre going circular, it's the perfect environment for trapping."

While the trash is in the ocean, it is doing what could be irreparable harm to sea life, the water it's in, and eventually humans.

Plastic resists biodegrading. Instead, a plastic shopping bag or pop bottle will photo-degrade over time, meaning that it will break down into smaller and smaller pieces but retain its original molecular composition.

The result is a great amount of fine plastic sand that resembles food to many creatures.

Unfortunately, the plastic cannot be digested, so sea birds or fish can eventually starve to death with a stomach full of plastic.

Even if the amount of plastic in a creature's body is not enough to block the passage of food, the small pellets act as sponges for several toxins, concentrating chemicals such as DDT to 1 million times the normal level.

This concentration then works its way up the food chain until a fish is served at our dinner table.

A deadly shining

Some birds, attracted to the shining in the ocean, approach the Great Pacific Garbage Patch in search of food. Marine researchers have commented that pelicans dissected in that area have stomachs so full of lighters that they resemble convenience stores. Sea turtles are also prone to mistaking plastic bags for jelly fish, which then cause their deaths or sit in their guts for the decades it takes the bags to break down.

In total, 267 species have been reported to have eaten from, or become entangled in, the Patch.

According to Chris Parry of the California Coastal Commission, regrettably little can be done to clean up the Patch, although many urge that a decreased reliance on plastic is the first step.

"At this point," said Parry, "cleaning it up isn't an option . . . it's just going to get bigger as our reliance on plastics continues."

"The long-term solution is to stop producing as much plastic products at home and change our consumption habits."

Cleaning up the Patch will likely cost billions of dollars and, as an approximation, be more difficult than vacuuming every inch of the United States. The plastic and garbage reach more than 30 metres down into the ocean and a great number of organisms would be destroyed in the process.

So far, no country has so much as proposed a solution, presumably because no nation wishes to claim responsibility.

Even if all plastic usage were to stop immediately, future geologists would be able to clearly mark the stratum designating the 20th and 21st century by an indelible layer of plastic coating the world's oceans.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:52 AM
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♥ What Is Possible #4 Watermelons In The Sahara

Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink.

The very deep did rot: O Christ!
That ever this should be!
Yea, slimy things did crawl with legs
Upon the slimy sea.

About, about in reel and rout
The death-fires danced at night;
The water, like a witch's oils,
Burnt green, and blue and white.

And some in dreams assured were
Of the spirit that plagued us so;
Nine fathom deep he had followed us
From the land of mist and snow.

And every tongue, through utter drought,
Was withered at the root;
We could not speak, no more than if
We had been choked with soot.

Ah! well-a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the Albatross
About my neck was hung."

An Albatross from the Pacific Gyre


Trashed


Across the Pacific Ocean, Plastics, Plastics, Everywhere
CHARLES MOORE / Natural History v.112, n.9, Nov03

Bottle caps and other plastic objects are visible inside the decomposed carcass of this Laysan albatross [above] on Kure Atoll, which lies in a remote and virtually uninhabited region of the North Pacific. The bird probably mistook the plastics for food and ingested them while foraging for prey.

It was on our way home, after finishing the Los Angeles-to-Hawaii sail race known as the Transpac, that my crew and I first caught sight of the trash, floating in one of the most remote regions of all the oceans. I had entered my cutter-rigged research vessel, Alguita, an aluminum-hulled catamaran, in the race to test a new mast. Although Alguita was built for research trawling, she was also a smart sailor, and she fit into the "cruising class" of boats that regularly enter the race. We did well, hitting a top speed of twenty knots under sail and winning a trophy for finishing in third place.

Throughout the race our strategy, like that of every other boat in the race, had been mainly to avoid the North Pacific subtropical gyre-the great high-pressure system in the central Pacific Ocean that, most of the time, is centered just north of the racecourse and halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. But after our success with the race we were feeling mellow and unhurried, and our vessel was equipped with auxiliary twin diesels and carried an extra supply of fuel. So on the way back to our home port in Long Beach, California, we decided to take a shortcut through the gyre, which few seafarers ever cross. Fishermen shun it because its waters lack the nutrients to support an abundant catch. Sailors dodge it because it lacks the wind to propel their sailboats.

I often struggle to find words that will communicate the vastness of the Pacific Ocean to people who have never been to sea. Day after day, Alguita was the only vehicle on a highway without landmarks, stretching from horizon to horizon. Yet as I gazed from the deck at the surface of what ought to have been a pristine ocean, I was confronted, as far as the eye could see, with the sight of plastic.

It seemed unbelievable, but I never found a clear spot. In the week it took to cross the subtropical high, no matter what time of day I looked, plastic debris was floating everywhere: bottles, bottle caps, wrappers, fragments. Months later, after I discussed what I had seen with the oceanographer Curtis Ebbesmeyer, perhaps the world's leading expert on flotsam, he began referring to the area as the "eastern garbage patch." But "patch" doesn't begin to convey the reality. Ebbesmeyer has estimated that the area, nearly covered with floating plastic debris, is roughly the size of Texas.


My interest in marine debris did not begin with my crossing of the North Pacific subtropical gyre. Voyaging in the Pacific has been part of my life since earliest childhood. In fifty-odd years as a deckhand, stock tender, able seaman, and now captain, I became increasingly alarmed by the growth in plastic debris I was seeing. But the floating plastics in the gyre galvanized my interest.

I did a quick calculation, estimating the debris at half a pound for every hundred square meters of sea surface. Multiplied by the circular area defined by

our roughly thousand-mile course through the gyre, the weight of the debris was about 3 million tons, comparable to a year's deposition at Puente Hills, Los Angeles's largest landfill. I resolved to return someday to test my alarming estimate.

Historically, the kind of drastic accumulation I encountered is a brand-new kind of despoilment. Trash has always been tossed into the seas, but it has been broken down in a fairly short time into carbon dioxide and water by marine microorganisms. Now, however, in the quest for lightweight but durable means of storing goods, we have created a class of products—plastics—that defeat even the most creative and voracious bacteria.

Unlike many discarded materials, most plastics in common use do not biodegrade. Instead they "photodegrade," a process whereby sunlight breaks them into progressively smaller pieces, all of which are still plastic polymers. In fact, the degradation eventually yields individual molecules of plastic, but these are still too tough for most anything—even such indiscriminate consumers as bacteria—to digest. And for the past fifty years or so, plastics that have made their way into the Pacific Ocean have been fragmenting and accumulating as a kind of swirling sewer in the North Pacific subtropical gyre.

It surprised me that the debris problem in the gyre had not already been looked at more closely by the scientific community. In fact, only recently starting in the early 1990s—has the scientific community begun to focus attention on the trash in the gyre. One of the first investigators to study the problem was W James Ingraham Jr., an oceanographer at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in Seattle. Ingraham's Ocean Surface Current Simulator (OSCURS) predicts that objects reaching this area might revolve around in it for sixteen years or more [below].

Ocean Surface Current Simulator (OSCURS) model developed by W James Ingraham Jr., an oceanographer at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), predicts the trajectory of drift originating along the coasts of the North Pacific rim. Drift from Japan is shown in red; drift from the United States, in blue. The diagrams show the position of drift after 183 days (left), three years (center), and ten years (right).

A year after my sobering voyage, I asked Steven B. Weisberg, director of the Southern California Coastal Water Research Project and an expert in marine environmental monitoring, to help me make a more rigorous estimate of the extent of the debris in the subtropical gyre. Weisberg's group had already published an article on the debris they had collected in fish trawls of the Southern California Bight, a region along the Pacific coast extending a hundred miles both north and south of Los Angeles. As I discussed the design plan for our survey with Weisberg's statisticians, Molly K. Leecaster and Shelly L. Moore, it became apparent that we were facing a new problem. In the coastal ocean, bodies of water are naturally defined, in part, by the coasts they lie against. In the open ocean, however, bodies of water are bounded by atmospheric pressure systems and the currents those systems create. In other words, air, not land, defines the body of water. Because air pressure systems move, the body of water we wanted to survey would be moving as well. A random sample of a moving area such as the gyre would have to be done quite differently from the way Weisberg's group had conducted their survey along the Pacific coast.

Currents in the North Pacific move in a clockwise spiral, or gyre, which tends to trap debris originating from sources along the North Pacific rim. Plastics and other waste have accumulated in the region, which includes the foraging areas of Pacific bird colonies, such as that of the Tern Island albatross, shown in blue, and that of the Guadalupe Island albatross, shown in green.

The gyre we planned to survey is one of the largest ocean realms on Earth, and one of five major subtropical gyres on the planet. Each subtropical gyre is created by mountainous flows of air moving from the tropics toward the polar regions. The air in the North Pacific subtropical gyre is heated at the equator and rises high into the atmosphere because of its buoyancy in cooler, surrounding air masses. The rotation of the Earth on its axis moves the heated air mass westward as it rises, then eastward once it cools and descends at around 30 degrees north latitude, creating a huge, clockwise-rotating mass of air [see map at right].

The rotating air mass creates a high-pressure system throughout the region. Those high pressures depress the ocean surface, and the rotating air mass also drives a slow but oceanic-scale surface current that moves with the air in a clockwise spiral. Winds near the center of the high are light or even calm, and so they do not mix the floating debris into the water column. This huge region, what I call a "gentle maelstrom," has become an accumulator of debris from innumerable sources along the North Pacific rim, as well as from ships at sea.

The subtropical gyres are also oceanic deserts in fact, many of the world's land-based deserts lie at nearly the same latitudes as the oceanic gyres. Like their terrestrial counterparts, the oceanic deserts are low in biomass. On land the low biomass is caused by the lack of moisture; in oceanic deserts the low biomass is a consequence of great ocean depths.

In coastal areas and shallow seas, winds and waves constantly stir up and recycle nutrients, increasing the biomass of the food web. In the deep oceans, though, such forces have no effect; the bottom sequesters the nutrient-rich residue of millions of years of near-surface photosynthetic production, as well as the decomposed fragments of life in the sea, trapping them miles below the surface. Hence the major source of food for the web of life in deep ocean areas is photosynthesis.

But even in the clear waters that prevail in the subtropical gyres, photosynthesis is confined to the top of the water column. Sunlight attenuates rapidly with depth, and by the time it has gone only about 5 percent of the way to the bottom, the light is too weak to fuel marine plants. The net effect is a vast area poor in resources, an effect that makes itself felt throughout the food web. Top predators, such as tuna and other commercially viable fish don't hang out in the gyres because the density of prey is so low. The human predator stays away too: the resources that have drawn entrepreneurs and scientists alike to various regions of the ocean are not present in the subtropical gyres.

What does exist in the gyres is a great variety of filter-feeding organisms that prey on the ever-renewed crop of tiny plants, or phytoplankton. Each day the phytoplankton grow in the sunlit part of the water, and each night they are consumed by the filter feeders, a fantastic array of alien-looking animals called zooplankton. The zooplankton include chordate jellyfishes known as "salps," which are among the fastest-growing multicellular organisms on the planet. By fashioning their bodies into pulsating tubes, the salps are able, each day, to filter half the water column they inhabit, drawing out the phytoplankton and smaller zooplankton for food. But salps are gelatinous creatures with a low biomass, and so there is no market for them, either. Hence the realm they dominate, one of the largest uniform habitats on the planet, remains unexploited and largely unexplored.

Leecaster, Moore, and I came up with a plan to make a series of trawls with a surface plankton net, along paths within a circle with a 564-mile radius. The area of the circle would then be almost exactly 1 million square miles. Trawling would start when we estimated we were under the central pressure cell of the high-pressure system that creates the gyre. We would regard the starting point as the easternmost point along the circumference of the circle. Then we would proceed due west to the center of the circle, turn south, and sail back to the southernmost point on the circumference, alternating between trawling and cruising. We intended to obtain transect samples with random lengths and random spacing between trawls. To be conservative about our sampling technique, we decided that any debris we collected would count only as a sample of the debris within the area of the transected circle.

In August 1998 1 set out with a four-member volunteer crew from Point Conception, California . heading northwest toward the subtropical gyre. Onboard Alguita was a manta trawl, an apparatus resembling a manta ray with wings and a broad mouth, which skimmed the ocean surface trailing a net with a fine mesh. Eight days out of port, the wind dropped below ten knots and we decided to practice our manta trawling technique, taking a sample at the edge of the subtropical gyre, about 800 miles offshore. We pulled in the manta after trawling three and a half miles.

What we saw amazed us. We were looking at a rich broth of minute sea creatures mixed with hundreds of colored plastic fragments-a plastic-plankton soup. The easy pickings energized all of us, and soon we began sampling in earnest. Because plankton move up and down in the water column each day, we needed to trawl nonstop, day and night, to get representative samples. When we encountered the light winds typical of the subtropical gyre, we deployed the manta outside the port wake, along with two other kinds of nets. Each net caught plenty of debris, but far and away the most productive trawl was the manta.

There was plenty of larger debris in our path as well, which the crew members retrieved with an inflatable dingy In the end, we took about a ton of this debris on board. The items included

a drum of hazardous chemicals;
an inflated volleyball, half covered in goose-neck barnacles;
a plastic coat hanger with a swivel hook;
a cathode-ray tube for a nineteen-inch TV;
an inflated truck tire mounted on a steel rim;
numerous plastic, and some glass, fishing floats;
a gallon bleach bottle that was so brittle it crumbled in our hands; and
a menacing medusa of tangled net lines and hawsers that we hung from the A-frame of our catamaran and named Polly P, for the polypropylene lines that made up its bulk.

In 2001, in the Marine Pollution Bulletin, we published the results of our survey and the analysis we had made of the debris, reporting, among other things, that there are six pounds of plastic floating in the North Pacific subtropical gyre for every pound of naturally occurring zooplankton. Our readers were as shocked as we were when we saw the yield of our first trawl. Since then we have returned to the area twice to continue documenting the phenomenon. During the latest trip, in the summer of 2002, our photographers captured underwater images of jellyfish hopelessly entangled in frayed lines, and transparent filter feeding organisms with colored plastic fragments in their bellies.

Entanglement and indigestion, however, are not the worst problems caused by the ubiquitous plastic pollution. Hideshige Takada, an environmental geochemist at Tokyo University, and his colleagues have discovered that floating plastic fragments accumulate hydrophobic-that is, non-water-soluble-toxic chemicals. Plastic polymers, it turns out, are sponges for DDT, PCBs, and other oily pollutants. The Japanese investigators found that plastic resin pellets concentrate such poisons to levels as high as a million times their concentrations in the water as free-floating substances.

The potential scope of the problem is staggering. Every year some 5.5 quadrillion (5.5 x 1015) plastic pellets—about 250 billion pounds of them—are produced worldwide for use in the manufacture of plastic products. When those pellets or products degrade, break into fragments, and disperse, the pieces may also become concentrators and transporters of toxic chemicals in the marine environment. Thus an astronomical number of vectors for some of the most toxic pollutants known are being released into an ecosystem dominated by the most efficient natural vacuum cleaners nature ever invented: the jellies and salps living in the ocean. After those organisms ingest the toxins, they are eaten in turn by fish, and so the poisons pass into the food web that leads, in some cases, to human beings. Farmers can grow pesticide-free organic produce, but can nature still produce a pollutant-free organic fish? After what I have seen first hand in the Pacific, I have my doubts.

Many people have seen photographs of seals trapped in nets or choked by plastic six-pack rings, or sea turtles feeding on plastic shopping bags, but the poster child for the consumption of pelagic plastic debris has to be the Laysan albatross. The plastic gadgets one typically finds in the stomach of the bird-whose range encompasses the remote, virtually uninhabited region around the northwest Hawaiian Islands-could stock the checkout counter at a convenience store. My analysis of the stomach contents of birds from two colonies of Laysan albatrosses that nest and feed in divergent areas of the North Pacific [see map above] show differences in the types of plastic they eat. I believe those differences reveal something about the way plastic is transported and breaks down in the ocean.

On Midway Island in the Hawaiian chain, a bolus, or mass of chewed food, coughed up by one bird included many identifiable objects. By contrast, a bird on Guadalupe Island, which lies 150 miles off the coast of Baja California, produced a bolus containing only plastic fragments. The principal natural prey of both bird colonies is squid, but as the ecologist Carl Safina notes in his book Eye of the Albatross, the birds' foraging style can be described as "better full than fussy." Robert W Henry III, a biologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and his colleagues have tracked both the Hawaiian and the Guadalupe populations of birds and found that the foraging areas of each colony in the Pacific are generally nonoverlapping and wide apart.

One difference between the two areas is apparently the way debris flows into them. In Ingraham's OSCURS model, debris from the coast of Japan reaches the foraging area of the Hawaiian birds within a year. Debris from the West Coast of the United States, however, sticks close to the coast until it bypasses the foraging area of the Guadalupe birds, then heads westward to Asia, not to return for six years or more. The lengthy passage seems to give the plastic debris time to break into fragments.

The subtropical gyres of the world are part of the deep ocean realm, whose ability to absorb, hide, and recycle refuse has long been seen as limitless. That ecologically sound image, however, was born in an era devoid of petroleumbased plastic polymers. Yet the many benefits of modern society's productivity have made nearly all of us hopelessly, and to a large degree rationally, addicted to plastic. Many, if not most, of the products we use daily contain or are contained by plastic. Plastic wraps, packaging, and even clothing defeat air and moisture and so defeat bacterial and oxidative decay. Plastic is ubiquitous precisely because it is so good at preventing nature from robbing us of our hardearned goods through incessant decay.

But the plastic polymers commonly used in consumer products, even as single molecules of plastic, are indigestible by any known organism. Even those single molecules must be further degraded by sunlight or slow oxidative breakdown before their constituents can be recycled into the building blocks of life. There is no data on how long such recycling takes in the ocean-some ecologists have made estimates of 500 years or more. Even more ominously, no one knows the ultimate consequences of the worldwide dispersion of plastic fragments that can concentrate the toxic chemicals already present in the world's oceans.

Ironically, the debris is re-entering the oceans whence it came; the ancient plankton that once floated on Earth's primordial sea gave rise to the petroleum now being transformed into plastic polymers. That exhumed life, our "civilized plankton," is, in effect, competing with its natural counterparts, as well as with those life-forms that directly or indirectly feed on them.

And the scale of the phenomenon is astounding. I now believe plastic debris to be the most common surface feature of the world's oceans. Because 40 percent of the oceans are classified as subtropical gyres, a fourth of the planet's surface area has become an accumulator of floating plastic debris. What can be done with this new class of products made specifically to defeat natural recycling? How can the dictum "In ecosystems, everything is used" be made to work with plastic?

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Oce...cificNov03.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHAT IT MEANS is that the project is far more huge AND FAR MORE NASTY than for instance, Spiral Island off the coast of Mexico. Food and supplies would have to be brought in by at least two boats running constantly from the mainland. Living off the sea - fishing - would be like growing watermelons in the Sahara.

LIVING on Indigo Island - at least in the Pacific Gyre would be like living in an RV while growing those watermelons in the Sahara.

Just accumulating and processing plastic would require a floating operation the size of a refinery.... not that it couldn't be made profitable. Nonetheless the plastic itself would be needed to fuel the process of melding it into floating blocks. The smoke from that would foul the skies.

Is that the end of the dream? No. But perhaps the Pacific Gyre is a bit ambitious. The idea is sound. The location is frankly... far too dangerous for humans. What about South America? SURELY there is some plastic there?

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Old 11-29-2007, 08:32 AM
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we can turn it all into oilslick or petrol and then scoop it back up:check it out below...

Microbial Enhanced Oil Recovery (MEOR), may prove useful and economical
MEOR will become increasingly economically feasible as genetic engineering develops more effective microbial bacteria that may subsist on inexpensive and abundant nutrients. This article will review how the microbe works to improve oil recovery.

MEOR is actually a family of processes that involves the use of microorganisms for enhanced recovery. There are six ways in which microorganisms may contribute to EOR: 1) microorganisms can produce biosurfactants and biopolymers on the surface; 2) microorganisms grow in reservoir rock pore throats to produce gases, surfactants, and other chemicals to recover trapped oil; 3) microorganisms can selectively plug high-permeability channels in reservoir rock, so that sweep efficiency increases; 4) biocracking, where microbes metabolize carbon atoms from the interior of an alkane chain; and 5) biocompetitive exclusion, (1) where a microbial population, such as denitrifying bacteria, is stimulated to outcompete an undesirable population, such as sulphate reducers.

So dood, nooo worries OK, we will make sum new phytoplankton. lets go smoke a bowl yea

mmm bowl love
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuedo-judo View Post
we can turn it all into oilslick or petrol and then scoop it back up:check it out below...

Microbial Enhanced Oil Recovery (MEOR), may prove useful and economical
MEOR will become increasingly economically feasible as genetic engineering develops more effective microbial bacteria that may subsist on inexpensive and abundant nutrients. This article will review how the microbe works to improve oil recovery.

MEOR is actually a family of processes that involves the use of microorganisms for enhanced recovery. There are six ways in which microorganisms may contribute to EOR: 1) microorganisms can produce biosurfactants and biopolymers on the surface; 2) microorganisms grow in reservoir rock pore throats to produce gases, surfactants, and other chemicals to recover trapped oil; 3) microorganisms can selectively plug high-permeability channels in reservoir rock, so that sweep efficiency increases; 4) biocracking, where microbes metabolize carbon atoms from the interior of an alkane chain; and 5) biocompetitive exclusion, (1) where a microbial population, such as denitrifying bacteria, is stimulated to outcompete an undesirable population, such as sulphate reducers.

So dood, nooo worries OK, we will make sum new phytoplankton. lets go smoke a bowl yea

mmm bowl love
Love your faith psuedo-judo. ♥ Have You Noticed The Couch Is On Fire?

I am an old man... maybe 10 years left, then ascention and (probably) return (reincarnation). It really is a beautiful world after all.

What I am becoming increasingly concerned about as I research this - is there going to be anything to come back TO if I return? I read your microbial breakdown article and think about the enormous task that would be .. recycling all that trash. Plus all the time the biomass would need to regurgitate itself plus all the crap that is being added to the oceans daily.. and I only come up with one question WILL IT FLOAT?

If it will float, I say heat it, press it together, turn it into floatation and BUILD Indigo Island AND sell the floatation to finance the projects. The problems of food, fuel, etc will be solved as needed.

MOTHER NATURE CAN BE A TOTAL BITCH

I believe we are pissing her off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~














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Old 11-29-2007, 01:28 PM
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wow this realy is amazing .what a great idea . a place for us all to come together. i love this idea ,, sooo when do we start
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
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wow this realy is amazing .what a great idea . a place for us all to come together. i love this idea ,, sooo when do we start
GOTCHA shawn_atlas. You are now infected with the Indigo Island Dream.

Since I am an Old Man dreaming dreams, it is for you and other younger men to have visions and make them happen.

Living off the sea as a source of food - at least in the Pacific Gyre is just not likely. It appears as though you could bait a hook with shad and leave it in the water for a week without catching much........ So I thought "How about the Carribean" ? So I did a little homework. Welcome to lovely Barbados with its lovely skies and pristine beaches..


Yeah........... Problem is, there is no swirling gyre on the Atlantic side. It all just washes ashore. More to come. Much more. The cruise lines are dumping tons overboard each day.

So....... back to the Pacific. The resource for enough flotation is definately there. Harvesting plastic and turning it into floatation material COULD actually be quite profitable. Indigo Island is more than possible .

Even compost toilets could be made with washed seaweed and then the effluent routed through trenches of compost or soil for vegetable gardens but it might be two years of work to get it going. Then there's weather. It gets chilly in the Pacific at times, too. Just uncomfortably. More homework.

Human nature is such that if someone BEGINS building Indigo Island, others will copy it - especially when they realize it is tax-free and government-free. This whole world is yearning for its freedom.

Just dreaming of course. JUST ONE example needs to happen to start a line of others saying "Me TOO!".

It is a humongous job that will take forever. Anything that takes forever of course, will assure one of Eternal Life. So why not?


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Old 11-30-2007, 12:35 PM
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Question earthing the dream!

Hi all

I am very glad to see that this thread was active really.!!!

Lets go indigo island.!!!

To wake up from adream give us earth. earth is necessary if we would like to build anything real, in other words, to make it happend we need to be very presice on the situaion, conditions, neds, process and people...and..TIME!

I like the idea very much about gathering, having own land(even if it floates), and living with no MONEY inland, and also doing something useful for nature.

Like the idea of individual islands or colelctive islands, all connecting to each other, like using octagons geometry. A systhem like this is used ina virtual way at Second life land administration.

Permaculture will be teh ideal solution. for growing some ffod there or the project biosphera too, they are quite advanced , if i think what is necessayr to bring ligfe and nature there.

http://ldmf-services.nexo.com/practical-learning-zone

Actualy this is what we need to do...think about salt!
http://www.eco-sphere.com/home.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sohI6vnWZmk
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/earth/wordfind/
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article850.html

Old times example: Just an example, at the titicaca see over 4000msm if i remember well, a tribe of teh andes created flowating islands with a kind of bambu, they live there, on SWEAT water they can drink, and they do live from the sea. and from animals they eat. the need to do a weekly maintainance with more bambu. for them that is easy, bambu grows up there on the water too. BUT IS SWEAT WATER!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uros


Suggestion: develop teh technology to make from salt water drinking water. then we will be able to offer water to teh rest of teh world....! they will need it too!
http://www.technologyreview.com/Nanotech/17776/
http://www.technologyreview.com/read....aspx?id=16977


Have any way, few questiosn for the thread.

1. plastic. I hardly process plastic. do you remember these boiling water botles, of plastic that use electricity to biol water. well, i could never really use them. That made me feel sick, the electricty didint desintegrate teh plastic at all, but creted tiny litle particles in teh water, taht i did drink: the result i was sweating plastic...not easy, not nice, actually owfulL!

2. did any body try healing into a room made of plastic?

3. i wrote the link to permaculture greening the desert becouse have alot to do with a salt environment, the salt wind of the ocean will burn the plants then we will need greenhouses!! ????? look at teh biosphere articles.

4. who is ready to spend so many years necessary to build up a biosphere, at the ocean! means to live not only indigo society camps ith tents and nice fire and guitars, but to build home for future gerenations...in brief at least 3 generationS to make it happend. consider the time neede to generate a permaculture farm on betton/concrete/asfalt in a city, where ther is no place for green. Well, not that bad, ..but now consider ou need earth. how will you transport the earth on teh island?

5. air. will nt be only salty, but plasty. tiny particles of plastia on teh air.... we will need masks, at least teh first generation living there, untl we have really land with earth over the plastic base.

6. Water desasters. you need to think about design and sustainability. technology about water buildings and constrruction is necessary?, not only a floating one. Becouse i dont think we will make it to have only one big land, probably will be channels and separated lands too...mmhhm. dont know, i gues only to put it all toghether will not make it resistant.

7. drinking water technology, for the first generation on the island, how will you make to produce water. I know is possible just mention it, we need the technology

8. team to build the whol administartive thing: ask for the money to the nice companies that would like to have thir adverts as sponsors, get the bank account and NGO...ok done..who are going to be board members?

9. can we think about a pilot island first? try it as a study of "communitary living and greeining the plastic". I am sure the idea is good, but we will find many challenges in the process, and a process is needed to design a massive island project. can we think about "solving the problems of teh world in a small garden"? first. save time, energy and helps you be more presice wit the work and process.

10. we need a process to make the island an enviornment for life and not for human intoxication, i am very sure that will nt eb that easy. think abouthe whole process, not only about the inmediate solution, but the long run solution+solution+solution:result.!

11. safety.... Blow up inidgos: burn inidg island! a great target fro anti-inidgo terrorists...easy and great target for them: we all live at the island! OK..i am exagerating..do i?

12. why not to think about a indigo colony? at the island? like vacation complex, training complex.just tro won land and provide xperience there?

13. why to isolate more ourselves?, while we can take land inland, this is "our planet" (at least now, for a while), so i think we need also a strategy and attitude to take over the planet real state too.dont you think? land is necessary if you want to be serious earth planet resident! i dont like myself saying that but is truth! nly that way the indigo home bases (on the ocen or inland islands) will produce a global effect.


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Old 11-30-2007, 09:05 PM
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♥ A Few Questions - A Few Answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigo Traveler View Post
Hi all

I am very glad to see that this thread was active really.!!!

Lets go indigo island.!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have any way, few questiosn for the thread.

1. plastic. I hardly process plastic. do you remember these boiling water botles, of plastic that use electricity to biol water. well, i could never really use them. That made me feel sick, the electricty didint desintegrate teh plastic at all, but creted tiny litle particles in teh water, taht i did drink: the result i was sweating plastic...not easy, not nice, actually owfulL!

Well, that's an answer rather than a question but I can help some. The stuff is toxic - even poisonous. It bonds with pesticides. People have tried using it in coffee pots and teapots with the same results............... YUK.

2. did any body try healing into a room made of plastic?

I can't imagine a healing vibe but look at our hospitals.... EVERYTHING is platic including the walls. There is NOTHING organic about this stuff and you are wise to be suspicious of it.

3. i wrote the link to permaculture greening the desert becouse have alot to do with a salt environment, the salt wind of the ocean will burn the plants then we will need greenhouses!! ????? look at teh biosphere articles.

The biosphere is wonderful.. a natural greenhouse. I envision Indigo Island being HIGH ABOVE the ocean - maybe 30 feet or so. I like the Spiral Island concept of composting toilets.. I envision the slurry from the toilets trickling down trenches of soil with vegetables growing in them. THERE IS MUCH TO BE STUDIED OF THE WEATHER IN THE PACIFIC GYRE. But it appears to have little breeze with waves only as high as seven feet. The design of Indigo Island and its modules could be a marvelous challenge for the students of the Solarium in Phoenix and Arcosanti... ot anyone really.

4. who is ready to spend so many years necessary to build up a biosphere, at the ocean! means to live not only indigo society camps ith tents and nice fire and guitars, but to build home for future gerenations...in brief at least 3 generationS to make it happend. consider the time neede to generate a permaculture farm on betton/concrete/asfalt in a city, where ther is no place for green. Well, not that bad, ..but now consider ou need earth. how will you transport the earth on teh island?

I don't have an answer for that question.

5. air. will nt be only salty, but plasty. tiny particles of plastia on teh air.... we will need masks, at least teh first generation living there, untl we have really land with earth over the plastic base.

Perhaps. MORE STUDIES SHOULD BE DONE. I don't believe the wind in the gyre would stir up that much plastic but it MIGHT. It's a good observation. I suspect coal miners might have some clues.

6. Water desasters. you need to think about design and sustainability. technology about water buildings and constrruction is necessary?, not only a floating one. Becouse i dont think we will make it to have only one big land, probably will be channels and separated lands too...mmhhm. dont know, i gues only to put it all toghether will not make it resistant.

MORE STUDIES. At first I envisioned a lot of very bouyant styrofoam. After doing some homework -- not so much so. I first figured light, melded blocks of floatation. Now I envision HEAVY blocks of much denser plastic. The kind of stuff that gets recycled into lawn furniture and railroad ties and roofing shingles. The Pacific Gyre may actually a gold mine of plastic that can be re-melted and re-extruded into other stuff. IT MAY BE TOO HEAVY TO USE TO BUILD AN ISLAND. Keep in mind Spiral Island has a bamboo frame floating on a quarter-million plastic bottles. Indigo Island would be massive by comparison and quite heavy. The criteria remains; WILL IT FLOAT?

7. drinking water technology, for the first generation on the island, how will you make to produce water. I know is possible just mention it, we need the technology

Reverse Osmosis technology is being used in Israel. Collection of rain water into cisterns like in the Carribean would work well. Distillation is possible with solar energy. The question really is not so much where to get the water but how to conserve it and use it wisely. I believe it rains a lot in the gyre.


8. team to build the whol administartive thing: ask for the money to the nice companies that would like to have thir adverts as sponsors, get the bank account and NGO...ok done..who are going to be board members?

What are you doing Thursday?

9. can we think about a pilot island first? try it as a study of "communitary living and greeining the plastic". I am sure the idea is good, but we will find many challenges in the process, and a process is needed to design a massive island project. can we think about "solving the problems of teh world in a small garden"? first. save time, energy and helps you be more presice wit the work and process.

I agree... we need to find out IF we can do it before we DO it. I have read there are some smaller rotating gyres of trash off the California coast. More homework and experimentation.

10. we need a process to make the island an enviornment for life and not for human intoxication, i am very sure that will nt eb that easy. think abouthe whole process, not only about the inmediate solution, but the long run solution+solution+solution:result.!

I don't have an answer for that question.

11. safety.... Blow up inidgos: burn inidg island! a great target fro anti-inidgo terrorists...easy and great target for them: we all live at the island! OK..i am exagerating..do i?

Ohhhhhh... you mean PIRATES - I thought you meant terrorists Hahahah. My guess would be that the island would have to prove itself hospitable. My feeling is that there is no place safe in this world.. Indigo Island or Chicago. My CHOICE of the two all things being equal - would be the island. What's to steal? What's to dominate? What's to control? Who cares? Nonetheless, you have a valid point. Indigo Island would be almost a no-man's land --- but so was Australia. So was America. It is not a question to be considered lightly.

12. why not to think about a indigo colony? at the island? like vacation complex, training complex.just tro won land and provide xperience there?

I don't have an answer for that question.

13. why to isolate more ourselves?, while we can take land inland, this is "our planet" (at least now, for a while), so i think we need also a strategy and attitude to take over the planet real state too.dont you think? land is necessary if you want to be serious earth planet resident! i dont like myself saying that but is truth! nly that way the indigo home bases (on the ocen or inland islands) will produce a global effect.

I can only think of one argument....... Governmental regulation. Within the structures of our society, a rebirthing of the feudal system seems to be taking place. Here in America we really own nothing. If it can be taxed, it can be taken - and will be. The same is true almost world wide now.

The dream of Indigo Island echos what is possible. That monstrous pile of trash in the Pacific needs to be cleaned up but it too is like the rest of our world - it may be too late to help. The dream is to build an island - a really BIG one but the truth is - it is one helluva nasty mess out there, to get into.

Just like the rest of life.






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contact.indigoisland@gmail.com
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:15 PM
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♥ Indigo Island In Disguise?

Here ya go Indigo Traveler.

Google's Website Marketing Analysis Program sorted through our conversation and came up with this........... advertised in a banner right on the page - where we couldn't miss it.

http://www.littlesatillaisland.com/index2.html

Gee.. wonder why I didn't think of that before? All it means is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ plus accountability to your neighbors plus taxes until you die, subservience to an intimidating government and slavery to a job you probably hate - in exchange for the 10% of your waking life that you will get to spend in this lovely paradise, just off the coast of Georgia, USA.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh The sense of belonging.
.

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Genesis 50:28

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contact.indigoisland@gmail.com

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Old 12-01-2007, 08:31 PM
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:11 PM
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Delicious hug - I am still dizzy and salivating from it.

Well first, I just wanted to copy Spiral Island in a different floatation media then I realized what a mountain (literally) of plastic is floating around out there and then I saw the pictures of the dead birds and so on..

Can you imagine what is out there? they reported a fully inflatred truck tire ON A RIM yet... $125.00 at a tire store... And that was just on a TEST dredge of a "manta" strainer - about four feet across at the mouth

TONS UPON TONS of extrudable plastic that can be recycled into building materials... Think about cruise ships and ladies purses with jewelry... Tghink about floating cargos lost at sea.

Indigo Island would be an incidental dream compared to the practicality of what would necessarily be the biggest salvage operation on the planet!

But I LOVE your way of thinking. You and Indigo Traveller are bending my mind around to a different cause.

But actually, the plastic itself could create the salvage and processing platform............ There I go again....

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Old 12-01-2007, 09:19 PM
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