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  • #31
    ignorance is bliss

    Originally posted by climbing View Post
    Not to my child, they wouldn't be.
    Oh...did you ask your baby its opinion...Or have you already decided that you know what's best?
    A Silent Master

    Comment


    • #32
      Interesting point that illuminati made about "Physical violence is an interpretation". Some would say circumcision is violent and this could be extended into saying other acts which some see as being right, could be said to be violent too eg How about the act of doing a vaccination on a child (eg holding a struggling childs arm for a vaccination it dont want) . So this leads me to consider, What really is violence? Is violence defined from the point of the one who's having a forced act done against them, or from the observer views? Is violence when an act is forceably done against ones will?

      I had to go and look up what the dictionary says for violence just for interest ... i guess circumcision can be said to be violence due to number one .. physical force exerted for the purpose of damaging (I guess no one can argue that that forskin is damaged in the act)
      "vi·o·lence (v-lns)
      n.
      1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
      2. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
      3. Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
      4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
      5. Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
      6. Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor."
      .....
      Yes babies are people, but in the US vaccines/immunizations are given without a babies consent!

      In the US a new born infant and the mother have to be observed in a hospital for at least 48 hours. If the mother left ..it would be AMA and social services would be called.
      Interesting. One of my daughters is completely unvaccinated as I didnt believe in subjecting her to something I have concerns over without her say. (It did cause some issues eg i had to fight to get a written doctors exception or she wasnt going to allowed into preschool unvaccinated)

      Wow.. interesting law about keeping mothers and babies in hospital for observation for 48hrs in America. (I'd left hospital with my daughter within 3 hrs of having her.. I was eager to show her off to all my friends..so took her visiting everyone ..who isnt proud of their new baby )
      Last edited by seamist; 09-21-2011, 02:41 AM.

      Comment


      • #33
        No matter how clean you teach your child to be with a foreskin, they can cause serious health issues.

        I scanned a gentleman that ended up with a penile/pelvic abcess because of his foreskin getting an infection (I think he had a small tear from intercourse).

        It's like religion, to each his own.

        It's a bit dangerous to be calling it 'violence against babies'; that is how labels end up getting applied unfairly. You wouldn't call an episiotomy violence against a birthing mother, would you? No, you wouldn't. They numb the child first, and they are so small they don't have a memory of it (I think Lumi touched on that). *edit: no pun intended.

        I know I've dated guys with either, and prefer a guy that's been circumcised. That is just my preference. If my husband and I had a son, we'd have him circumcised. But Jack also comes from a Jewish background.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seamist View Post
          Interesting point that illuminati made about "Physical violence is an interpretation". Some would say circumcision is violent and this could be extended into saying other acts which some see as being right, could be said to be violent too eg How about the act of doing a vaccination on a child (eg holding a struggling childs arm for a vaccination it dont want) . So this leads me to consider, What really is violence? Is violence defined from the point of the one who's having a forced act done against them, or from the observer views? Is violence when an act is forceably done against ones will?

          I had to go and look up what the dictionary says for violence just for interest ... i guess circumcision can be said to be violence due to number one .. physical force exerted for the purpose of damaging (I guess no one can argue that that forskin is damaged in the act)
          "vi·o·lence (v-lns)
          n.
          1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
          2. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
          3. Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
          4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
          5. Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
          6. Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor."
          .....

          Interesting. One of my daughters is completely unvaccinated as I didnt believe in subjecting her to something I have concerns over without her say. (It did cause some issues eg i had to fight to get a written doctors exception or she wasnt going to allowed into preschool unvaccinated)

          Wow.. interesting law about keeping mothers and babies in hospital for observation for 48hrs in America. (I'd left hospital with my daughter within 3 hrs of having her.. I was eager to show her off to all my friends..so took her visiting everyone ..who isnt proud of their new baby )
          Thats just the point..."interpretation". The provider that performs the circumcision is not doing it with the intention to "damage" the body. The ethical practice of medicine forbides it. Hence an onlooker that have never seen a circumcision nor understand the ethical practice behind the "act" might interpret it as such. That interpretation does not validate the opinion, it invalidates the reasoning of the opinion.

          A mother that slaps her childs hand before he/she mistakenly pokes a siblings eyes is being forceful, but are they being violent. A mother that is patting the back of their child to facilitate burping ..is that damaging. I could argue yes for both with sound reasoning according to the physiology of the cells and capillaries that are being contused.

          I dont want to dilute the point for the sake of making the argument.

          I work with providers that have denied a patient medical access and care under their ethical beliefs. If an anemic person comes in and is close to death but has a jehovah witness physician and that provider is the only one around..should the provider give blood or say "not on my watch".

          Immunizations are an interesting point. For one of your daughter is immunied and the other one, only because most people get immunized, passively immune. Meaning while in school it is likely at least 75% of your classmates are immuned. Day care might not be a great idea though. However, with all respects you are not doing your child justice by saying no and sending her out into a world that is the way it is.

          I get the "argument" and respect that but I see the same people that stand up against immunizations but are ok with antibiotics and a countless other medications, fruits in stored, manufacture milk, cheese, eggs..I could go on.

          The logic is not there and the ignorance is bliss as it relates to the global principle. These same people have cell phones and use lab tops...all of which increase your exposure to unnatural degrees of EM energy, and radiation. The same people that drink public water and have bought into the "food pyramid". All these thing are state supported/promoted vices.

          I mean for the sake of the conversation I get it and I see foolishness like the circumcision arguement every day.

          It all comes down to ones understanding.

          As a provider, they damn near make me get an influenza shot, yet make the hepatitis b vaccine optional. If I get influenze..I might pass it but I will get over it. However if I get Hep B I am fucked! I am more likely to get HepB than HIV. Trust me I understand the political and the relative arguments as does Luna.

          At the end of the conversation I agree with here"to each their own" not because I respect the poorly designed arguments of ignorant parents or IS members; rather its by merit of their ignorance that I only facilitate exchange and not informational empowerment here on IS or against a patients right to say "no".

          People are so quick to indulge in their own vain and undertanding and not comprehensive reasoning, I help them by remaining silent allowing them to learn.

          Circumcision for the sake of the conversation...
          both sexs have "penis/clitoris with hoods; testicles/ovaries"
          These organs are differentiated and hormone regulated differently! They both have innervation...but follow me!

          The pleasure principle of the flawed argument has nothing to do with the function of fertilization!

          The skin/hood of the foreskin is sensitive...but during sex the "hood" retracts and what is left is the glans which is still very sensitive! The hood innervation brushing up against a glans meatus that is homologous to the femal clitoris. The clitoris has a hood as well.
          During stimulation oral, manually, or from a penis that hood does not retract by itself like the foreskin of the penis ..why, cause the erect penis grows. This is why some of you ladies mistakenly blame the male for not knowing your body well enough to facilitate true clitoral stimulated orgasm!

          For those ladies that want to keep it real...direct clitoral stimulation if done right is too sensitive. At times the hood nullifies it just enough to make it just right.

          To put it in perspective why do most men wanna stop having sex or "pull out" immediately after an orgasm.....?

          Its because the tip is so sensitive the negative feed back tells the brain to stop faciliating the erection...

          Ladies if you dont believe me, next time you treat your man to a "favor" allow him to climax and ejaculate....then latch back on (hopefully after your a neat girl bymaking sure it cleaned off). Your man will scream!!! pain mixed with pleasure! Fellas same thing for the ladies! If you are serving her well and she climaxs go ahead and get a second...third and hopefully fourth wind and catch her between her breathing..she will thank you and you can then me later! ,....

          Yes I am illuminati nothing is "secret" even in bed muahhaha (kidding)!

          Now if anyone cares to take a stab at the spiritual aspect..I will be more than happy to explain that as well!
          Last edited by illuminati; 09-21-2011, 06:54 AM.
          A Silent Master

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by 1month1day11 View Post
            No matter how clean you teach your child to be with a foreskin, they can cause serious health issues.

            I scanned a gentleman that ended up with a penile/pelvic abcess because of his foreskin getting an infection (I think he had a small tear from intercourse).

            It's like religion, to each his own.

            It's a bit dangerous to be calling it 'violence against babies'; that is how labels end up getting applied unfairly. You wouldn't call an episiotomy violence against a birthing mother, would you? No, you wouldn't. They numb the child first, and they are so small they don't have a memory of it (I think Lumi touched on that). *edit: no pun intended.

            I know I've dated guys with either, and prefer a guy that's been circumcised. That is just my preference. If my husband and I had a son, we'd have him circumcised. But Jack also comes from a Jewish background.
            No actually they do not numb the child all the time.....I have been witness to many circumcisions with no pain med. And as far as the statement that they they are so small that they don't remember it ...well you don't really know do you? You and the rest of us also do not know what isn't remembered as it was and could have been burried inside.


            An episiotomy is a procedure done on an adult woman....with their permission....andonly if it is necessary to them not tearing. They don't just do an episiotomy on a woman because it's tradition. if it's not necessary it isn't done.......Also The episiotomy is a small ouch compared to the act of CHILDBIRTH....LOL and again this is preformed on an adult with the facilities to register and understand pain. It's too easy to say, they are just a baby....they won't remember it.

            Also...no matter how good you teach your child to clean there could be health problems with any part of their body......if they have a particular problem with the fact that they are not circumcised...they can...as an adult decide to do this....when they can register and understand the pain that they have decided to put themselves through.

            WE can't just go cutting people up because they "might" develop something later if they do not use good hygine in that area.....If that were the case, I believe the vagina would be the first to go. In 35 years of nursing, the amount of vaginal and urinary infections in women that were my patients greatly outweigh the one case that I remember of a man having a problem with not being circumcised....and it was taken care of at the time by his own choice. And he survived beautifully!

            the slippery slope is people believing that we have a right to cut up our children with out just cause simply because they cannot say anything about it.

            After watching many surgeries and other procedures....seeing a baby boy having his forskin cut off was the most tramatic thing i was ever witness to. I went flat out on the floor...and nothing not even an autopsy ever got me woosy. The baby was tramatized and so was everyone else in the room with any feelings. And it wasn't to save his life or anyone elses....it was because the parents doctor recomended it.
            Don't compromise yourself. You're all you've got. ~Janis Joplin

            Comment


            • #36
              Like I said, it's like religion, to each his own.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 1month1day11 View Post
                Like I said, it's like religion, to each his own.
                I agree with that on opinion.....but really does each parent have a right to do that? I just wish people would become more informed about what is going on now in the world instead of 100 years ago.

                No one yet can prove that this is necessary in anyway.

                I spent too many years as a patient advocate while being a nurse. I can't just drop that now
                Don't compromise yourself. You're all you've got. ~Janis Joplin

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Grandma Lola View Post
                  No actually they do not numb the child all the time.....I have been witness to many circumcisions with no pain med. And as far as the statement that they they are so small that they don't remember it ...well you don't really know do you? You and the rest of us also do not know what isn't remembered as it was and could have been burried inside.


                  An episiotomy is a procedure done on an adult woman....with their permission....andonly if it is necessary to them not tearing. They don't just do an episiotomy on a woman because it's tradition. if it's not necessary it isn't done.......Also The episiotomy is a small ouch compared to the act of CHILDBIRTH....LOL and again this is preformed on an adult with the facilities to register and understand pain. It's too easy to say, they are just a baby....they won't remember it.

                  Also...no matter how good you teach your child to clean there could be health problems with any part of their body......if they have a particular problem with the fact that they are not circumcised...they can...as an adult decide to do this....when they can register and understand the pain that they have decided to put themselves through.

                  WE can't just go cutting people up because they "might" develop something later if they do not use good hygine in that area.....If that were the case, I believe the vagina would be the first to go. In 35 years of nursing, the amount of vaginal and urinary infections in women that were my patients greatly outweigh the one case that I remember of a man having a problem with not being circumcised....and it was taken care of at the time by his own choice. And he survived beautifully!

                  the slippery slope is people believing that we have a right to cut up our children with out just cause simply because they cannot say anything about it.

                  After watching many surgeries and other procedures....seeing a baby boy having his forskin cut off was the most tramatic thing i was ever witness to. I went flat out on the floor...and nothing not even an autopsy ever got me woosy. The baby was tramatized and so was everyone else in the room with any feelings. And it wasn't to save his life or anyone elses....it was because the parents doctor recomended it.

                  Lola you are professionally ignorant. You are illustrating that in your many years of nursing..you have seen bad practice! http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...dure/page2.htm.

                  Though you, I, and luna are not giving professional advice, you are communicating professional ignorance and your logic is falliable. I posted a link illustrating the standard of practice to reduce "pain" that is not remembered nor sustained past 24 hours supported by research and biometric reading that has evidence to support it and not lolas truism.

                  Additional as male who is circumsized can give personal testimony to counter you "personal" assumptions about an experience that you will never have as a female. Your speculation is full of unsophistcate assertions and notions not supported in the medical community.

                  An episiotomy is not analogous to a circumcision. Additionally your use of it in this discussion illustrates a true lkack of education accumen of it.

                  Episiotomy vs Circumcision

                  Traditionally; episiotomys were done circumcisions are not.

                  Permission; they wont ask of if it means they have to get consent from parent
                  protecting the labor/child; the parent is agreeing avoid unnecessary "natural"
                  vaginal mutilation
                  Pain; They are suppose to numb at times... They numb with topical
                  The pain resolves in 24 hours but kegal The pain stimuli is gone
                  for a life time essentially after one feeding
                  http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/episiotomy/HO00064

                  I have included a link that is layman about this topic.

                  You spoke about cleaniness in an above post that contradicted your notion in the previous when you stated that your son and your husband had a mom that taught then how to clean! Luna correct that illogic and now your retort is that they can do it when they are an adult. As a female you are making decisions or suggesting that the timeliness of these decisions are approiate when an indivdual has the cognitive faculties to make an informed decision adulthood. That logic is far from an educated inference. Maturity, scholarship, exposure, experience, knowledge, and understand are just a few measures to facilitate "good and sound" decisions. "The miles not the distance" http://www.aafp.org/afp/990315ap/1514.html

                  The risk are the same regardless of age and the procedure does not change!
                  Here is a layman website from "men" that contradict all your points! http://www.circinfo.net/.

                  You are giving a personal account and you dont have the profession understanding or credentials for it to even be considered as a well informed argument. Luna graciously afforded your ignorance and opinion with the comment to each there own!

                  I will do the same but so that the community can see just how one sided you passionate mind works.

                  The same "parent right" that you or any body has to say "no"; is ultimately the same parental right for another to say "yes". Parents are saying yes... if it be for spiritual, ignorance/misunderstanding, or tradition.

                  To suggest that parental guardianship should not over rule a babys right to make a decision is silly, uneducated, and with out any comprehensive understanding of maturity, adulthood etc. The entire American society and the world disagree with you and calling it a indigo resolve is pawning ignorance and immaturity off on a plateform of eclectic thought and existential reasoning!

                  The data that you have provided to support any ascertion that circumcisions should not be done because;

                  1 you are not respecting the babies right
                  2 its very painful and could lead to adverse consequences
                  3 its mutilation and tradition is not an excuse

                  Are all premise that are not sound, not logical, and dont support your concluding "opinion(s)".

                  You have to be willing not weight both sides of the argument against "evidence base", "comprehensive understanding", and reasoning above partiality.

                  You are aged and have calender experience...I wont argue that! However as you articulate that we measure the wisdom or usefulness of that calender experience. You have displayed a continued static position in life and understanding. So I am not surprised of the lack in understanding as it relates to this topic from an academic and medical point of view.

                  You have communicated your bias, your partiality, and an opinion. Thank you for that, but wisdom from your personal experience is questionable.

                  I am glad you are not in a position that requires a provider to give accurate informational empowerment as it relates to responsible, ethical, unbiased, and comprehensive intellectual command of this procedure the benefits and adversities as it is supported by evidence base medicine in the field of medical practice.

                  You would be sued and even the nursing board would sanction you as you obviously are out of your scope of practice and understanding.
                  Last edited by illuminati; 09-21-2011, 01:39 PM.
                  A Silent Master

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I know not everyone believes my communication with the 4D'ers, BUT one is telling me that they do not have them on their bodies in their frame, that they have evolved not to have one.

                    Take that how ever you please, but he suggested that I share that.

                    Also, it seems that they use them for things...which I had no clue about (thanks, Google) including;

                    Human growth factors derived from newborns' foreskins are used to make a commercial anti-wrinkle skin cream, TNS Recovery Complex.[56]
                    Foreskins of babies are also used for skin graft tissue,[57][58][59] and for β-interferon-based drugs.[60]
                    Foreskin fibroblasts have been used in biomedical research.[61]
                    THAT, I had no idea about!LOL

                    Does it hurt? Yes. Jack tells me that in Judaism, all circumcisions are performed within eight days of birth.

                    Personally, as a woman, I see the hygenic benefit from it; I was engaged to a man that was not circumcised; as clean as he was, I had perpetual bladder infections from him. It didn't matter if he just got out of the shower. That was my experience.

                    My nephew is not circumcised, and recently, through the way of swim practice, figured out he's 'different' than all the other kids in his class.

                    He came home very upset, and asked his mother why his penis looked different than everyone else? She tried to explain to him why she didn't have him circumcised (he's 11) and now he is angry with her for not doing it when he was younger. (He claims that she has 'ruined his sex life') He wants to have the procedure now, but she told him he will have to wait until he's 18.

                    Obviously, this is an isolated event, but I just use it to illustrate another facet of the debate...

                    It's become a societal norm here in the U.S. Is it good or bad? I think both sides of the arguement have valid points. But it's up to each parent to decide what is going to be best for their own child.
                    Last edited by 1month1day11; 09-21-2011, 02:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Nobody asked me if I wanted an episiotomy; "we just made a cut to prevent a tear" is what I got.

                      As for circumcision, that is handled differently by different cultures; I don't think there is a right or wrong answer because circumcision poses advantages as well as disadvantages. I chose not to circumcise my son because it is not European tradition, in Germany circumcision is associated with Jewish beliefs and I'm not Jewish. He is now 8 and it looks like nature wants him to be cut, he is developing a phimosis for the second time (first time we could "undo" it with steroids, this time we are not that lucky I guess). I tried to teach him and remind him to take care of it but he just didn't follow through, maybe he's to young ... not sure. I'm not comfortable fiddling with his privates every day, maybe it's my fault it got that far.
                      ~ A Clockwork Indigo ~

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Yeah, my doctor didn't ask me if I wanted an episiotomy either, he basically said, "I'm going to do a cut here, because you are going to tear if I don't." Tearing didn't sound fun to me, so I told him to go a head. Within a few days, it was healed, and I was glad I didn't have a tear instead.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          If the vaginal tears and heals.."mal -aligned" or develops scar tissue that could of been prevented ... your midwife md etc would be doing you a dis-service.

                          Vaginal tears...or rectovaginal complications lead to fistulas...and yes shit coming through the vaginal wall is a life time of problems.

                          Not all medical intervention is do to violate a patients rights! It is done accoridng to a life time of experience and practice that save people from hardship everyday!

                          That hot 25 yearold body of the pregnant woman is at higher risk of prolapse all due to a tear that could/may of been prevented!!!!

                          I did a pelvic exam of a 70 something patient and was surprised to see the cervix next to the labia!

                          I also did a bimanual on a patient an was surprise that I could touch my finger tips from the rectum to the vaginal vault.

                          However... if the depth of this converstaion is limited to opinions and my harsh tone (as I received an infraction from my post above)

                          ..then yes....

                          I am very happy I give all my female patients sound reasoning, comprehensive informational empowerment, and compassionate care that is unbiased from my personal beliefs.

                          I dont have opinions about what is right when I walk into a patients room. I have guidance and partnership in establishing a care plan that they entrust we with to ethically and morally do no intentional harm!


                          A circumcision is not an intentional harm ...people!
                          Last edited by illuminati; 09-21-2011, 03:44 PM.
                          A Silent Master

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by illuminati View Post
                            Lola you are professionally ignorant. You are illustrating that in your many years of nursing..you have seen bad practice! http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...dure/page2.htm.

                            Though you, I, and luna are not giving professional advice, you are communicating professional ignorance and your logic is falliable. I posted a link illustrating the standard of practice to reduce "pain" that is not remembered nor sustained past 24 hours supported by research and biometric reading that has evidence to support it and not lolas truism.

                            Additional as male who is circumsized can give personal testimony to counter you "personal" assumptions about an experience that you will never have as a female. Your speculation is full of unsophistcate assertions and notions not supported in the medical community.

                            An episiotomy is not analogous to a circumcision. Additionally your use of it in this discussion illustrates a true lkack of education accumen of it.

                            Episiotomy vs Circumcision

                            Traditionally; episiotomys were done circumcisions are not.

                            Permission; they wont ask of if it means they have to get consent from parent
                            protecting the labor/child; the parent is agreeing avoid unnecessary "natural"
                            vaginal mutilation
                            Pain; They are suppose to numb at times... They numb with topical
                            The pain resolves in 24 hours but kegal The pain stimuli is gone
                            for a life time essentially after one feeding
                            http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/episiotomy/HO00064

                            I have included a link that is layman about this topic.

                            You spoke about cleaniness in an above post that contradicted your notion in the previous when you stated that your son and your husband had a mom that taught then how to clean! Luna correct that illogic and now your retort is that they can do it when they are an adult. As a female you are making decisions or suggesting that the timeliness of these decisions are approiate when an indivdual has the cognitive faculties to make an informed decision adulthood. That logic is far from an educated inference. Maturity, scholarship, exposure, experience, knowledge, and understand are just a few measures to facilitate "good and sound" decisions. "The miles not the distance" http://www.aafp.org/afp/990315ap/1514.html

                            The risk are the same regardless of age and the procedure does not change!
                            Here is a layman website from "men" that contradict all your points! http://www.circinfo.net/.

                            You are giving a personal account and you dont have the profession understanding or credentials for it to even be considered as a well informed argument. Luna graciously afforded your ignorance and opinion with the comment to each there own!

                            I will do the same but so that the community can see just how one sided you passionate mind works.

                            The same "parent right" that you or any body has to say "no"; is ultimately the same parental right for another to say "yes". Parents are saying yes... if it be for spiritual, ignorance/misunderstanding, or tradition.

                            To suggest that parental guardianship should not over rule a babys right to make a decision is silly, uneducated, and with out any comprehensive understanding of maturity, adulthood etc. The entire American society and the world disagree with you and calling it a indigo resolve is pawning ignorance and immaturity off on a plateform of eclectic thought and existential reasoning!

                            The data that you have provided to support any ascertion that circumcisions should not be done because;

                            1 you are not respecting the babies right
                            2 its very painful and could lead to adverse consequences
                            3 its mutilation and tradition is not an excuse

                            Are all premise that are not sound, not logical, and dont support your concluding "opinion(s)".

                            You have to be willing not weight both sides of the argument against "evidence base", "comprehensive understanding", and reasoning above partiality.

                            You are aged and have calender experience...I wont argue that! However as you articulate that we measure the wisdom or usefulness of that calender experience. You have displayed a continued static position in life and understanding. So I am not surprised of the lack in understanding as it relates to this topic from an academic and medical point of view.

                            You have communicated your bias, your partiality, and an opinion. Thank you for that, but wisdom from your personal experience is questionable.

                            I am glad you are not in a position that requires a provider to give accurate informational empowerment as it relates to responsible, ethical, unbiased, and comprehensive intellectual command of this procedure the benefits and adversities as it is supported by evidence base medicine in the field of medical practice.

                            You would be sued and even the nursing board would sanction you as you obviously are out of your scope of practice and understanding.
                            You were infracted for this post? I don't understand?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by illuminati View Post
                              If the vaginal tears and heals.."mal -aligned" or develops scar tissue that could of been prevented ... your midwife md etc would be doing you a dis-service.

                              Vaginal tears...or rectovaginal complications lead to fistulas...and yes shit coming through the vaginal wall is a life time of problems.

                              Not all medical intervention is do to violate a patients rights! It is done accoridng to a life time of experience and practice that save people from hardship everyday!

                              That hot 25 yearold body of the pregnant woman is at higher risk of prolapse all due to a tear that could/may of been prevented!!!!

                              I did a pelvic exam of a 70 something patient and was surprised to see the cervix next to the labia!
                              I also did a bimanual on a patient an was surprise that I could touch my finger tips from the rectum to the vaginal vault.

                              However... if the depth of this converstaion is limited to opinions and my harsh tone (as I received an infraction from my post above)

                              ..then yes....

                              I am very happy I give all my female patients sound reasoning, comprehensive informational empowerment, and compassionate care that is unbiased from my personal beliefs.

                              I dont have opinions about what is right when I walk into a patients room. I have guidance and partnership in establishing a care plan that they entrust we with to ethically and morally do no intentional harm!


                              A circumcision is not an intentional harm people!
                              I've imaged my fair share of fistulas over the years, they are not a pleasant experience for the patient. And they always require surgery.

                              *shivers*

                              I was glad for my episiotomy. If I had labored longer, I wouldn't of needed one, but the little one was impatient.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I understand both view points, pro circumcision and anti.

                                It happened to me as a baby, and honestly I am happy about it. I have a healthy and thriving member And it certainly didn't diminish my sex drive or sensitivity, that was my own doing later in life lol.

                                I think the ancient traditions did it because of a sort of blind faith tradition, but it was founded in a type of truth. Similar to the eating traditions of ancient Judaism, and also those of the East (which are similar but not identical). They were to preserve a sort of purity of sorts, or to "restrict." A great deal of the old ways form around "restriction," even the concepts found within Kaballah. To restrict and to desire, and the fine balance between them. But is this really important to know?

                                If it diminishes pleasure or sensitivity, then perhaps it was done so that the initiate did not get "tempted" too far into the wrong direction. That is not say sex is wrong, but I can tell you it doesn't matter what tradition of the east or west, "masturbation" is considered a waste. Certain middle-eastern/western traditions, it is believed to go straight to a negative energy. In the easy you are wasting "essence" and can never get the pre-natal chi back (although, you can revitalize it). One of the keys to "accessing God" was celibacy, in Buddhism, while they don't believe in a Monotheistic God, to connect to that "void" that ultimate reality, celibacy was also part of the process. In Hindu, to reach a certain state these things are also recommended.

                                Modern science did not exist, and neither did the new forms (new age and otherwise) of interpreting the energy bodies, systems, and subtle energies of the body. So they had to rely on tradition and LAW to ensure and keep the process. While today we tend to look down on these rigid belief systems and structures, in a way I'm glad they were kept this way- mainly so that today we can see where these dogmas originate, and also understand the old in a new way.

                                Also there is the practice of supposedly keeping that area clean and free of diseases and infections. Plus, I've found that many girls love it I'm not condoning it, it might be better to just keep it al-naturale, but I don't really invest too much time in over-analyzing whether I'm pro or anti. I just am, and in a way am grateful for it. if I wasn't, I'm sure I would feel the exact same way. Doing it later in life......shit! I don't think so :P
                                Last edited by AmentiHall; 09-21-2011, 03:00 PM.

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