Pride

[Verumi]

Pride isn't always good. It's taking satifaction in something you've done or are. For example, I may go out to a restaraunt with my grandfather. He starts saying something really rude about someone's ethnicity within earshot of that person. If I have pride in not stereotyping people, I might say something back to him about how inappropriate it is and how he's thinking backwards. If I stereotype like he does and take pride in it, I may laugh and maybe joke around at this other person's expense. In absence of pride, I'd probably just ignore it and move right along in the conversation.

What about taking pride in someone else's work? Someone with the bumpersticker "Proud parents of a honor roll student" is proud. Why? Is it because their spawn did well? Is it because their kid is proud of their own acheivement? Who's ego is being stroked here, the parent or the child?

How about being proud of you race? What does it mean to take pride in the genetic compilation that your parents made you from? It wasn't an accident. One parent is this, one parent is that, so you're what they are. What is there to be proud of? What did you do?

So what do you think pride really is and why do so many people seem to have it? What is it's purpose?

[Amur]

Many forms of pride seem to be an inner insecurity about certain things, the outer expectation of pride or the outer apperanance is only as a counter-balance to that inner insecurity...

Or that's how I've viewed it my whole life which is why I haven't really bothered about it in the first place...

[Verumi]

Same here. Or so I thought. I catch myself sometimes and rethink what I'm about to say, if anything.

[Everything is ok]

I can't say how it got started for me or what purpose it serves. Right now I think its mostly some inner habit. Its something I deal with just about everyday. I'm sort of grateful for it because every time it tries to creep up on me it forces me back into the present moment so i can quickly deal with it.

It seems to work like anything else. The desire to speak or communicate works off the same inner mechanisms that my pride does. Maybe it can be traced back to simple desire and pride would just be the name for that particular type of desire. I can remedy it the same way as I do other inner disturbances.

I realize all of these terms exist for one thing or another however I feel these ideas the words are pointing at are nonexistent. If we didn't allow any inner disturbance or we were such that it never happened these things would not exist. I think part of the illusion of self is in the aspects of what we think is self. The way I understand it (for now) is that the thing I am is a nothing in the sense that it has zero identifiable characteristics yet its there. It can be nothing and everything. I think anything other than that pure self that can not be expressed in any symbolism is not real. I think due to the nature of being without nature every thing becomes possible and confusion becomes a real problem especially when we are so conditioned to think in terms of symbols.

It sort of reminds me of the mystics of older traditions speaking of the unknowable.

[Patryc]

good call, I actually went through all of my photo's and recommended my parents get rid of photo's that displayed pride during the start of my transition to ensure pride was not captured on photo, as pride is a big problem in my family

I burned any photo that locked pride into myself as I felt like it locks you in that metaphysical state and is hard to overcome otherwise

I don't think being proud is an admirable trait any longer, humility is much more becoming and assists ones growth where I believe pride is detrimental to it

pride is almost like saying - I am better, whereas we know full well there is no one better than another - we should all be equal

I have a good poster to help children with their self esteem this week

it reads "no one can do everything but everyone can do something."

celebrate your differences and your strengths but do not believe you are better than someone else because you have that strength, there will be things they will excel at that you will have difficulty with, if we all respect each other and understand that we are all equal then we can work together and help each other to improve our weaknesses and grow together

[Dannii]

i think some pride may be good though because its just another experience of being a 3d humanoid. i think the whole point of us being here is to experience these emotions and feelings at some point but just in moderation and with awareness.

[Lake]

It depends on what level of pride you're talking about because it's defined in different ways. Pride in terms of feeling haughty or better than others or so swelled up with importance because of what one's done, yes, that's not good.

But I think that you're referring to another kind of pride here as well when you mention pride. Black pride or gay pride or other kinds of minority pride aren't to me defined the same way--to me that's not pride in terms of being haughty or arrogant. Instead that's pride defined in terms of its antithesis, that one should be ashamed of who they are because of their minority status. Remember that blacks, for example, have often been seen as inferior because of their skin color, with the Bible used as evidence (considered to be descendents of Ham, the one who uncovered Noah, and the New Testament used to uphold slavery). Black pride, gay pride, feminist pride, disability pride seem to emerge along with civil rights movements and become less prominent as groups are integrated and more welcomed and included.

People also often refer to someone taking pride in their work--I don't typically read that as being egotistical, but more as someone taking care, feeling their responsiblities and attempting to do as well as possible in that regard. Taking pride in one's work in that regard might be for the sake of others rather than for self.

Glad you brought this up--I'll be thinking about how I use the term and how that might be perceived.

[Lake]

To me humility is the more important trait to cultivate, but there's also false humility, and that's also to be steered clear of. My mom always said pride comes before a fall, and I've always, always found that to be true.

[Lake]

Dictionary.com: it seems like the primary uses of the term are what people most worry about, the inoridinate opinion rather than self esteem:

1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
2. the state or feeling of being proud.
3. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
4. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself: civic pride.
5. something that causes a person or persons to be proud: His art collection was the pride of the family.
6. the best of a group, class, society, etc.: This bull is the pride of the herd.
7. the most flourishing state or period: in the pride of adulthood.
8. mettle in a horse.
9. Literary. splendor, magnificence, or pomp.
10. a group of lions.
11. sexual desire, esp. in a female animal.
12. ornament or adornment.

[Dabbs]

Wouldn't you, in order to feel pride, have to have gone without something in order to have obtained pride?

For example: someone who grew up in a poor family, worked very hard in order to make sure they did not fall into the same type of lifestyle that they were trying to escape, therefore, they'd be very proud of what they had accomplished. As they should be.

Or, in my case, I'm proud of myself for not bending my own sense of morals and values to suit others around me.

What is the harm in that type of pride?

[Everything is ok]

Its a construct in our vast and spacious inner landscape. Its a focal point and something that must be maintained. In order to form pride there must be a belief to sustain the pride. Belief must also be protected and guarded or else it will fade back into nothingness. So much work and energy in forming things that we can do without and can cause problems.

It can act as an experience limiter. It can cause fears and aversions to certain situations and people. All of this to defend our pride.

I think this is a fantastic topic for discussion and meditation.

[Patryc]

I feel like it can tend to put the blinders on you, by being proud we may limit our opportunities to grow and learn from the humble souls, so often I see those who prance down the street all beautified and lofty scoff at those around them who they believe to be less than them because of the way they look, this is just one example, there are many other ways pride is used, so they cut themselves off from these people just by displaying / being attached to this emotion

pride seems to isolate people, you will notice proud people seem to stick together and attack each other to make themselves feel superior

then there is pride's weakness - flattery

this leaves them open to manipulation, they are needy of compliments and long for them as the pride drives them this way

the other point I have is that it seems to make people fear change, something crucial for spiritual growth so its detrimental in this way also

[Lake]

Oh yeah, I'm not fond at all of the "my clothes make me better than you" types excluding people on the basis of appearance and name brands. Surprising to see it exists among so many adults. It can be fun to dress up sometimes, but for status, no.

[Dabbs]

We have to have some pride... we can't extinguish it completely. If we did, our houses would be a disaster, our children would be dressed in rags, we would eat from garbage cans... Nothing would matter if we had no pride.

[Everything is ok]

We have to have some pride... we can't extinguish it completely. If we did, our houses would be a disaster, our children would be dressed in rags, we would eat from garbage cans... Nothing would matter if we had no pride.

I respectfully disagree.

Something entirely different will take over.

[Peekski]

Greetings Indigo Society

Have missed your company very much, fell ill, had to be hospitalized, twice, beginning the evening of October 13, 2008, am out of the hospital and feeling much better, a kidney stone, kidney infection, pulmonary edema, some bleeding, additional heart damage, lower leg edema, still recovering.

There are as we all know areas where; very "heavy-concentrations of negative energy on this planet, are prevalent-at this point, of our development, while encountering, and processing the balance of energies,

the occasional encounter of these overwhelming imbalances, can result in- physical illness.

According to the Hospital, I would have died within two days, had I not called 911 for help, it was a most uncomfortable experience, you were/are all, always with me, in the deepest reaches of my heart, we are one and always together, and this love does not allow me to die.


Love Light and Life
Peekski the Emerald Heart

[Verumi]

Alright, so I am seeing two sides right now on pride. 1. Pride can be limiting and 2. No pride can be disastrous.

Do you put effort into something that you enjoy doing? For example, gardening. You can start a lovely garden, but if you don't put any effort into it, it will wither and die. Do you have pride in starting the garden, or do you have pride in maintaining that garden? If you start something but do not continue it, it is in the past--and so what good does pride serve then? It is something that is being clung onto. If you have pride in maintaining, you aren't really limiting yourself, but are simply motivated to continue what you are doing out of the satisfaction you get by maintaining (or continually putting effort into something).

So why then do you need pride? It is the effort that you are observing and is satisfying you. You get as much out of an activity as you put into it.

[Verumi]

So maybe pride is something to have while in the act of excerting effort, giving you a more favorable outcome for that activity. And once it is done, it is time to move on and have pride in the next activity that you put effort into.

[Patryc]

Alright, so I am seeing two sides right now on pride. 1. Pride can be limiting and 2. No pride can be disastrous.

Do you put effort into something that you enjoy doing? For example, gardening. You can start a lovely garden, but if you don't put any effort into it, it will wither and die. Do you have pride in starting the garden, or do you have pride in maintaining that garden? If you start something but do not continue it, it is in the past--and so what good does pride serve then? It is something that is being clung onto. If you have pride in maintaining, you aren't really limiting yourself, but are simply motivated to continue what you are doing out of the satisfaction you get by maintaining (or continually putting effort into something).

So why then do you need pride? It is the effort that you are observing and is satisfying you. You get as much out of an activity as you put into it.

but why do you have to be the one who is in charge of a garden in the first place, nature creates the most beautiful things without our intervention, why can't we enjoy what is already there ?

in creating and tending for that garden you develop an attachment to it, a responsibility develops and you will be effected personally by any compliments made by the garden, you may even be critical of yourself if the garden is left and weeds overcome it, is that a healthy thing for you?

[Verumi]

but why do you have to be the one who is in charge of a garden in the first place, nature creates the most beautiful things without our intervention, why can't we enjoy what is already there ?

in creating and tending for that garden you develop an attachment to it, a responsibility develops and you will be effected personally by any compliments made by the garden, you may even be critical of yourself if the garden is left and weeds overcome it, is that a healthy thing for you?

Attachment is not healthy if it becomes obsessive. How is cultivating a garden to eat vegitables, or for just plain pleasure, any different than reading books or discussing things that cultivate the mind? Everything is a process, and by not putting any effort into the process, we don't get as much out of it.

A person who is passionate about something may have any number of reasons they are passionate, and the reason is itself a form of attachment. The thought, the action, the effort, the feelings, are present in all that we do. It is a matter of to what degree does it effect you?