Second Bible Study

[Charity]

You're onto something, Cjmax02. Sometimes people wonder how can God be all these traits at once. You got to remember that Genesis says we were created in His image. Think about the way people act. We have a full range of emotions, but we don't express them all at the same time.

Like here in Ecclesiastes. He was very good to Soloman. Yet Soloman did Him wrong. It says in 2 Chronicles what happened after he died. The Kingdom was divided up. God gave ten tribes to Jeroboam. The people were very unhappy with the House of David. That Temple cost alot of money and Soloman's behavior angered many.

Soloman's heir Rehoboam was clueless too."My father chastised you with whips. I will chastise you with scorpions."


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[chise]

2 i) I thought in my heart, "Come now, I will test you with pleasure to find out what is good." But that also proved to be meaningless

- the phrase, 'thought in my heart', is interesting. Makes me wonder
where the ancients believed thoughts where thought from in the heart or
mind?
- next, are the thoughts within beckoning Solomon to test and experience
pleasure in order to find out whether it's worthwhile

ii)" Laughter," I said, "is foolish. And what does pleasure accomplish?" iii) I Tried cheering myself with wine, and embracing folly-my mind still guiding me with wisdom. I wanted to see what was worth while for men to do under heaven during the few days of their lives.

- Only to find it to be meaningless as a matter of fact i find this to be meaningless

[Charity]

Welcome to the forum, chise. Thank you for your contributions. The ancient Egyptians believed we thought with our hearts. It wouldn't surprise me if the Israelites shared the believe. Coptic and Hebrew are in the same language group.

[Clear Blue Sky]

About 12 years ago, I asked God for like a personal covenant. He directed me to the Book of Ecclesiastes Chapter 10. It resonnated a lot over the years (though I didn't quite keep it!). If I had my way, I would put Ecclesiastes in the prologue of the Bible and make everyone familiar with it before they read the other stuff.

[pebble]

Ecclesiastes 2:3
3 I tried cheering myself with wine, and embracing folly--my mind still guiding me with wisdom. I wanted to see what was worthwhile for men to do under heaven during the few days of their lives.

lol, I know my Father has a sense of humor! Boones Farm Snowcreek berry, bikers wine of choice and crown royal...embracing folly? I rushed in where fools fear tread...but within, in my heart of hearts, never have I left His Feet. I was gaining wisdom, the Holy Spirit taught me through life experience. There is something within me that knows that through it all...before I was formed in the womb He knew me...knew me, that denotes relationship. I asked for this journey into understanding. I am seeking to live beyond the thought, there's got to be more! The mask of conformity has been tossed aside and what is worthwhile I see and know peace. The mystery of the paradox lies here.

Father,
I praise You that You have never left me, even to the valley of shadows, You were there to guide me Home. How blessed that I learned peace through strife and laughter through tears! The beauty of counting it all joy. Thank You Beautiful Father in the Name of Christ Jesus Love, Your daughter

Child, how beautiful is the heart that is broken to be remade. Subdue your heart, your mind and feet will follow.

[Clear Blue Sky]

2:4 - I undertood great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vinyards. I made gardens and parks and planted all kinds of fruit trees in them. I made reservoirs to water groves of flourishing trees. . . . my heart took delight in all my work, and this was the reward for all my labor..... 2:11. Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind; nothing was gained under the sun.

I have... been there, in some ways. I spent years working on a house and a garden that burned to the ground. Worked to restore natural areas that others trampled on, built infrastructures that others dropped in the dust. You enjoy the moment, you WANT to think you are building a lasting monument to the future.... but true meaning, be it happiness or purpose, does not lie in the expanse of the future, or in the simple moment. . . though in some ways it rests upon both. And where is God in all this? Read on...

[QuosVadis]

Well if we must read ecclesiasts we must read as well the song of Salomon as well…. No??…

[Charity]

Hello QuosVadis. Yes, that is a good idea. I appreciate everyone contributing to this thread. I'm glad (and a bit surprised) that it's still alive.

[QuosVadis]

Very difficult book... hard to follow...probably the most difficult book in the whole Bible...No matter if was written by Salomon or not…For what I gather is that Salomon got pissed off…At the end…. am I rite or wrong??…Not really sure about this, must say…. I think that he was ahead of his time…or who ever wroth that…Very clever must add…Certainly a good warning/guide for all….

[Charity]

At the end Soloman is reconciled to fate, and suggests others do the same. Soloman comes to the conclusion that in the end wisedom makes no difference in the eye's of God. It is your actions that define you.

[Clear Blue Sky]

My take on it was a strange alloy of "live the moment" "life is meaningless" and "the end never justifies the means." Life comes from God, returns to God, in the end that's what matters most. Perhaps to the writer the only thing that does?

[pebble]

a vessel must empty to fill...He was gifted with the wisdom of G~d, and I believe this is what he learned.

[QuosVadis]

. Got this from a web site. Much easier to cut and paste… I got my interpretation from it, but before I foreword it I like you to explain first..
2:3 I searched in my heart how to cheer my flesh with wine, my heart yet guiding me with wisdom, and how to lay hold of folly, until I might see what it was good for the sons of men that they should do under heaven all the days of their lives. 2:4 I made myself great works. I built myself houses. I planted myself vineyards. 2:5 I made myself gardens and parks, and I planted trees in them of all kinds of fruit. 2:6 I made myself pools of water, to water from it the forest where trees were reared. 2:7 I bought male servants and female servants, and had servants born in my house. I also had great possessions of herds and flocks, above all who were before me in Jerusalem; 2:8 I also gathered silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and of the provinces. I got myself male and female singers, and the delights of the sons of men—musical instruments, and that of all sorts. 2:9 So I was great, and increased more than all who were before me in Jerusalem. My wisdom also remained with me. 2:10 whatever my eyes desired, I didn’t keep from them. I didn’t withhold my heart from any joy, for my heart rejoiced because of all my labour, and this was my portion from all my labour. 2:11 Then I looked at all the works that my hands had worked, and at the labour that I had laboured to do; and behold, all was vanity and a chasing after wind, and there was no profit under the sun.......Please give me your interpretation.........

[Charity]

2:3 Soloman tries all types of entertainment. He is a King, nobody is going to tell him no. So he can experiance all the material pleasures availiable.
2:4- 2.8 Soloman is talking about all his pocessions and accomplishments. No matter what culture, Kings built monuments & temples.
2:9-11 Soloman did all this stuff. He was happy for a while. His subjects were happy...except when they were getting taxed...most Kings would be happy. Yet Soloman was unhappy. That shows a different mindset & level of thinking than what the Assyrian Kings were doing at the same time.

Bear in mind that I want to be a history teacher. It's hard for me to see symbolism.

[QuosVadis]

Ok…...I can relate to that…Very much so… But I have never hurt anyone directly.. But at the same time I wished that I had lived my life differently… too many carnal knowledge, and money, and lust…I know that I have failed … … I can very much resonate with Salomon …And again that is all in the past and nothing can change…The sun will steel rase and set, and so on and on…… Is that it??….. If that is it, I believe that if you can realize of your wrongdoing, and I mean wrong to your existence not to anyone else, that doesn’t make you a evil man…. But some, in the Old Book get all the gratitude like Abram and David and lets not forget Lot.... They literally did wrong, and they have been known as great people. How come that Salomon become a great controversy, and is used a lot by sceptics? I have much more respect for him because at least he admits of his wrong doing in regards of God expectance.. …. Not easy to explain. But I think you got my drift …...

[StuRBz]

dumb.
dumb.
dumb.
dumb.
dumb.

i cant believe you are all so lost..

this is F*cking retarded...

[adonis777]

This is a very good thread,

I was surprised by the o.p.

excellent.

[Charity]

I appreciate your comments, Adonis. Feel free to interpret the next set of lines. I love this book in the Bible because it speaks to me on a personal level.

[Clear Blue Sky]

To be honest, when I was young I saught wisdom in these words, a great illuminating weight to look up to. And when I had lived a little I found ways that they resonnated with my own life. I think anyone reading them with a heart will find a way they resonnate with their own life. and I am very grateful, if for no other reason this is the living communication of a mind that lived like 3000 years ago. Pretty incredible.

But.... 3 thousand years ago.... nothing new under the sun? And he gathered *to himself* all that wealth and gardens for himself and bought male & female slaves and had slaved born to his house for himself? Nothing new under the sun? Did he imagine a trip to the moon? Or that a king could *give* to others? Did he imagine a world free of slavery and servitude? Elected officials free from kingly tyranny, and kingly intrigue, and kingly rebellions? A public library? A world of health care for his subjects? Wise as he was then, as a human, his vision was limited to his own life and circumstances and event horizon.

But, all the same, whoever he was, I give him credit for introspection, and for sharing.

[dreamwalker]

12 So I turned to consider wisdom, madness and folly; for what {will} the man {do} who will come after the king {except} what has already been done?

He thinks of wisdom, madness and folly, he has done it all, what more is there to do that he had not done? so why not think of these things?

13 And I saw that wisdom excels folly as light excels darkness.

As he grew in wisdom he saw that those things of pleasure have no lasting awards. The more wisdom the less mistakes.

14 The wise man's eyes are in his head, but the fool walks in darkness. And yet I know that one fate befalls them both.

The one that follows and the one that leads and he that can not see, all die.

15 Then I said to myself, " As is the fate of the fool, it will also befall me. Why then have I been extremely wise?" So I said to myself, "This too is vanity."

He will die and what will become of what he has accomplished?

16 For there is no lasting remembrance of the wise man {as} with the fool, inasmuch as {in} the coming days all will be forgotten. And how the wise man and the fool alike die!


17 So I hated life, for the work which had been done under the sun was grievous to me; because everything is futility and striving after wind.

He did fall into idolatry for a time. Perhaps he is venting here at his old age of his fall?

18 Thus I hated all the fruit of my labor for which I had labored under the sun, for I must leave it to the man who will come after me.

Everything that he has and that has done will be given to another man after him.

19 And who knows whether he will be a wise man or a fool? Yet he will have control over all the fruit of my labor for which I have labored by acting wisely under the sun. This too is vanity.

Perhaps he knows the hearts of his sons and is worried of the fate of Israel.

20 Therefore I completely despaired of all the fruit of my labor for which I had labored under the sun.

He disregarded his position as King.

21 When there is a man who has labored with wisdom, knowledge and skill, then he gives his legacy to one who has not labored with them. This too is vanity and a great evil.

He shows more concern for the fate of Israel.

22 For what does a man get in all his labor and in his striving with which he labors under the sun?

looks like he answers his own question:

23 Because all his days his task is painful and grievous; even at night his mind does not rest. This too is vanity.

24 There is nothing better for a man {than} to eat and drink and tell himself that his labor is good. This also I have seen that it is from the hand of God.

God does enjoy seeing his creation do what he intended.

25 For who can eat and who can have enjoyment without Him?

26 For to a person who is good in His sight He has given wisdom and knowledge and joy, while to the sinner He has given the task of gathering and collecting so that he may give to one who is good in God's sight. This too is vanity and striving after wind.