Control

[Adongala]

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
~Adolph Hitler

Interesting thought, isn't it? This also happens with one's own self. Keep telling a lie, and eventually you, too, will believe it. What happens when you believe the lie? Is this not where conspiracies come from? Or how about phenomenons? Social tendencies, anyone?

Seems to be manipulation at its best. There is more than one type of manipulation, really. Manipulation includes, but is not limited to; lying, ulterior motives, half-truths, withholding information, twisting information towards one's favor, taking things out of context, playing with another's passions/buttons/heart strings, and anything that is not of pure intent.

We all have done it before. Who hasn't asked someone for a favor when the person would be most likely to say yes? How about going to mom instead of dad (or visa-versa) because you knew they'd say yes when the other wouldn't? It becomes more dangerous when someone has a person hanging on their every word, or obeying them especially when the intent is not pure.


But still, everyone has the ability to refuse to do something. We all make choices. What about consequences? What about them? There are consequence for every action, or lack thereof.
Really, if people were to stand against the social norms, the authority would crumble. One cannot be forced to do something against their will.

A man may well bring a horse to the water, but he cannot make him drink.
~John Heywood (1546)

One can refuse authority too. One may be charged with a crime, but do they have to follow the orders? It's all about choices. Yes, one can be sent to jail, but do the laws and rules matter if one refuses to abide by them? This affect is by far more noticeable when a group does it. Thus Riots and rebels come into play. If there is a large enough riot, things are changed. Laws and rules are truly subjective, and can be changed.


Who are you going to let take control? Will you have it for yourself, and take charge of your life and surroundings? Or will you allow someone else to, and hope for the best while following along?

[ThetaAbundance]

oh, oh, great subject! I'll be back, wanted to subscribe so I can get back here easily!

[Patryc]

grins reminds me of this man I met in the markets the other day

he sooo looked like a druid. He was wearing this long white robe with an open chest and he had a long white beard but not much left on top. He came into the crystal shop where we were and sat down and talked to us about words and the meaning behind them. He chose not to send his children to school so that they could be free of the control systems that bind them and shape the way they think. He had two children and a lovely wife who would have been 20 odd years younger than he was both reminded me of myself - very shy curious kids. They all had an amazing energy. I couldn't stop grinning when I saw him. He gave everyone hugs too. Amazing how many hugs I got in that crystal shop that day.

[lunchbox]

*sigh* wish i had a crystal shop to hang in, but no i live in south west michigan that shop would last bout 30 seconds till the fundies start picketing it due to its "heathen practices" blah blah blah, i need to move.

[Adongala]

*sigh* wish i had a crystal shop to hang in, but no i live in south west michigan that shop would last bout 30 seconds till the fundies start picketing it due to its "heathen practices" blah blah blah, i need to move.

How can you take control of/change this situation?

[inferno_dragon377]

I think it is time for change. You are right adon, we can change things. I can only imagine what the government is going to do when the millions of people in this nation decided to much is to much. Roughly one third of the population is employed in the armed forces/police/control factors.

However, I keep seeing the scene from V for Vendetta.
~"What do you think will happen?"
~"What happens anytime people without guns try to take over people with guns?"

Chaos

[lunchbox]

start my own shop, get fired by my uber religious boss, and drop kick the fundies.
actually........... that sound pretty sweet! thanks

[Adongala]

I think it is time for change. You are right adon, we can change things. I can only imagine what the government is going to do when the millions of people in this nation decided to much is to much. Roughly one third of the population is employed in the armed forces/police/control factors.

However, I keep seeing the scene from V for Vendetta.
~"What do you think will happen?"
~"What happens anytime people without guns try to take over people with guns?"

Chaos

too true. but chaos is neither bad nor good, it just is.

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 AM ----------

start my own shop, get fired by my uber religious boss, and drop kick the fundies.
actually........... that sound pretty sweet! thanks

lolz

[sshenry]

However, I keep seeing the scene from V for Vendetta.
~"What do you think will happen?"
~"What happens anytime people without guns try to take over people with guns?"

Chaos

And yet -and yet - they DID change things, and without the chaos that was expected....

insert the end scene from demolition man here - he's just destroyed their world (so to speak).

"I'll tell you what you're going to do - you, you're going to clean yourselves up. You, are going to get a lot dirtier. As to the rest of you - I don't know - you'll figure it out."

[lunchbox]

chaos isnt so bad, its change incarnate, it removes stagnation of the status quo, change is good!

[IDontKnow]

sat down and talked to us about words and the meaning behind them.

Can i ask what the meaning was??

(Just an old old memory that i shal never forget)

[Patryc]

he explained that there was very little meaning behind the words, other than the emotions infused into them, names, words, they are all irrelevant, in comparison to the intent or the emotion that is infused within them.

people assign meaning to them due to past experiences and usually that relates to the emotion felt at the time they first experienced this new word. That can change as the person experiences new things.

[lunchbox]

wisdom at its finest, very cool man... very cool!

[Quiet Knight]

One has to know the truth, to be in control, even if if it is to decide to let something else be in control, because there is no other best choice at the moment. The truth shall set you free, I know a very easily thrown about phrase, but still very true. Control is not always about being on top or not being caught in something, and you are just along the ride. It is about making decisions on correct truths and principles, I hope and think that maybe we could reach common ground on this idea, well hopefully so, it seems totally logical to me.

I say this for the fact, that deception is one of the main tools others use to control, except for all out force; this also applies in abusive controlling personal relations. The masses seem like a herd of Lemmings today, all of which are being herded toward a very steep cliff. That has to be the only conclusion for what is going on in the USA and other countries in the World. That has to be why the masses keep voting in the same turkey politicians, why they keep taking in the same poisonous food into their minds and bodies, and thinking they are happy and lucky to get what they have.

The controllers squeeze so very slowly, over a long time period, that most do not even notice the noose getting tighter and tighter around their necks. For those of us who have seen a half century or more, hopefully we see more, but I know that is not always the case, unless one is self aware, and not a lemming.

One has to be tapped into a greater light then what is in the world, like the Holy Ghost or what ever you may desire to call it. It steers and guides your mind and thoughts and helps you to think and see in a different light; that is partly what makes Empaths, Sensitive, and Indigos so different, that they walk to a different beat and follow a different light.

[lunchbox]

this is a good song for this thread.
enjoy

YouTube - The Authority Song - John Mellencamp

[desire knowledge]

You must realize that no matter what it is the experience we are seeking no matter what the outcome or consequences. Do you think we have not learned from say Hitlers crimes? Each experience no matter how bad nor how fu*&ed up they seem all occur to teach us something. How can we sit back and judge one persons way of learning wrong compared to our own? It is life, it is experience and we just have to embrace whatever is thrown at us. Yes I know I take more of the stance of a crystal then an indigo...but violence begets violence. And if we rise up to save others...how do you know that that's the best thing that could occur? How does the way you see things seem better then a way another person sees something? Just my thoughts.

[bijon]

nice thread Adongala, never expected you to be the philosopher

this reminds me of a quote by William Blake

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create. "

[Amethyst]

Good thread, andongala!

I feel, like with everything, it's not just to do with what you do, it's the reasons why you do it (and how you do it).

Looking at both side of control (positive and negative)

Negative examples...

A woman thinks that women who are thin, are unattractive, so she tries to get her friend, who wants to lose weight, and be thin again (but not underweight), to feel that being thin is unattractive, she does this by saying how she thinks that women with a bit of meat on their bones, curvy, are more attractive, and that men don't find thin women attractive. She feels she is trying to help her friend, because she does not want her friend to be less attractive....(so intension was good, but her friends personal choice was not respected, it was to do with what she saw as what a woman should look like to be attractive...and not respecting her friends feelings...).

A man wants to be a nurse, but his friends would feel ashamened to have a male friend that was a nurse, so when he hears about his friends plans, he ridicules male nurses, jokes about them being gay, laughts at them with disrespect...really, not caring about what his friend wants to do in his heart, just about the image that his friends have, and how they will make him look when they are around him, and someone finds out that his friend is a nurse...(reminds me a bit of meet the parents!)

A man is worried that his wife, because she is so physically attractive, will attract other men, and is insecure that she may find someone "better" than him, so he persuades her to were plain clothes, to not wear make up, to not get up and dance when they are out, to not go out with friends to clubs or parties, and so on...

and it could go on...

Positive examples...


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A friend puts in a good word (which is sinsere) for his close freind, who is looking for a job, to his manager, knowing that his friend is more likely to get the job because of this...

A mother tries to teach her daughter, about the danger of hard drugs, as she knows that some of her daughters friends, take crack, and they have been really messed up by it...her intension being that she does not want her daughter to be messed up by taking crack...she wants her to be healthy, and alive...

A collegue has been hearing, how some other collegues have been putting down her male collegue, behind his back. because he has very bad breath, so she offers him a mint...she knows that she cannot say to him "you have really bad breath" as they are not really friends, they don't know each other well enough, and his feelings would be hurt so badly...so, she hopes that the mint might help...

[Silverhaze]

hmm you know my gran kept telling people that she was 58 so that she wouldn't have to admit she had hit 60 and then after a year or so of saying that she actually thought she was turning 59 on her birthday when she was actually turning 62

not a very big example but something you said reminded me of that, tell yourself something long enough and you are going to start believing it
that is the problem with depression, people get stuck in negative self talk patterns telling themselves 'no one cares', 'I'm useless', 'I'm ugly', 'I'm stupid' ect. and then they start to believe it

and it's very very hard to get out of it

[Adongala]

You must realize that no matter what it is the experience we are seeking no matter what the outcome or consequences. Do you think we have not learned from say Hitlers crimes? Each experience no matter how bad nor how fu*&ed up they seem all occur to teach us something. How can we sit back and judge one persons way of learning wrong compared to our own? It is life, it is experience and we just have to embrace whatever is thrown at us. Yes I know I take more of the stance of a crystal then an indigo...but violence begets violence. And if we rise up to save others...how do you know that that's the best thing that could occur? How does the way you see things seem better then a way another person sees something? Just my thoughts.

Yet history repeats itself. We may have learned... but i bet someone will look at his stuff and try it again.
Everyone learns differently, indeed. Which is why I don't excel at trig, but do at art.
I hope I am not coming off as trying to save the world.... my point is everyone has choices.... and i started rambling a bit lolz... you know, i just love to talk too much lolz.
I personally believe only you know what is best for you. I think people can get stirred up by things.... and great things emerge from leaders rising to the occasion.