Inevitability and causality in the economy

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Inevitability and causality in the economy «  » by JandraElune
Population growth and the required workforce.


At least one of these numbers should be a constant number to check. But it goes completely unchecked.

The population is ALWAYS growing, it is inevitable and constant.

Required workforce reduces with increasing technology, over the past 10 years alone it has been reduced to one third of what it was. If proof you need look at your local grouchier store with no baggers and half full of self check out lanes. What the mainstream can't see is the manufacturing industry is equally reduced...from 3-6 workers per press/line down to 1-2 workers.

Technology creates new jobs true...but it does NOT create additional jobs which is what IS needed. In fact it compress's jobs by a factor of 3.

Eventually if not already the cost of living is going to HAVE to cover the unemployed as no employment CAN be created for ALL of them.

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Minimum wage and cost of living.


Most think cost of living as just shelter and food nothing more. This thought is actually false to what is true. The cost of LEGAL and HEALTHFUL living is far greater:

This cost is for 1 single person and no dependents...add $200 per month per dependent.

Housing (mortgage/rent/home insurance) $400 and higher per month
Insurance (health - dental/life/medical) $300 and higher per month
Communication (phone/internet) $50 and higher per month
Housing Utilities (gas/electric/water/trash) $200 and higher per month
Transportation (auto insurance/gas/car payment/bus fare) $600/$200 and higher per month
Food $150 and higher per month

Total: $1,800/$1,400 and higher per month

Full time minimum wage take home is $900 and lower per month. Cost of living has FAR exceeded affordable to minimum wage by over 200%. Some people MUST support 4 people off this.

---------------To get the US out of debt, the cost of living must crash and crash hard to get it affordable to cover 4 people with 1 single full time minimum wage income.
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«  » by h0bby1
acess to production based on work time/wages should not be applied when there is not the need for all the population to work :p
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«  » by JandraElune
Yeah eventually the few working are going to have to cover the ones that aren't. There is no avoiding or ignoring this like it has been for so many years with everyone so fixed on getting jobs for everyone...when simply that just will never happen.
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«  » by lunchbox
problem is exactly what makes you think the working WILL support those that dont?
its the right thing to do but not the profitable thing to do and most people will not willingly submit to a socialist or communist political mindset needed to enact it.
nope i bring home 1,200 and my wife about 1,400 per month and we are still considered poverty level income and in no way can support those who cant pull there share, hell were haveing to file bankrupt, just to keep our home. when it comes to working its kill or be killed sacrifices in comfort or standered of living have to be considered. what is not needed to survive, internet?, phone?, computer?, cable or satellite t.v.? the cost of living estimation is based on the minimal income needed to sustain life, not to nurture it.
a harsh realization but it is the price you pay for living in a capitalist society, money and not empathy move the world. it blows but untill we are willing to remove ourselves from our comfort zones and do something about it. its our load to bear.
i guess part of this message is that you have to be willing to do what it takes to survive! if you got to scrub shit stains off a wall cause its the only job available then DO IT! cause there is always someone else that will if you wont and they aint gonna share dick with you, fast food isnt glamourous but its money. you wont be driveing a benz with that income but if the whole family is working then theres a shot at survival but if there are people unwilling to work due to haveing to many excuses and not enough motivation then they are not pulling there weight and are living solely by the providence of the workers in the family. its time to sink, swim, or just burn this mother fu**er down and start over, but the time for complaining is done.

Atlas will shrug..... but not in the way people think.
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«  » by ThetaAbundance
oh, dear, lord. If it were only that simple Lunchbox...it isn't. There are so many scenerio's.
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«  » by lunchbox
oh i understand there are tons of scenerios, but no exucse will put food on the table or clothes on your back. people need to learn to survive, not to expect the world to cater to there needs. we must be strong and willing to use any means to take what is ours.
we were givin gifts of mind and spirit that most dont have we need a will to use it.
im not trying to be an ass about this and am not trying to make light of peoples struggle.
hell im in that struggle, i just feel to many have givin up. its time to take control back from the powers that control us! how can we change the world if were constantly being crushed by it?
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«  » by h0bby1
the thing is we overpay lots of things and the price for me atotally fucked up deeply today :) but it is clear you cannot expect any real support for a familly can have the money for two familly, if you go into production level instead of money, not necessarily the same :) how much of you work in food or clothe industry ? :) non so basically you could all stop to work, and there would be exactly the same amount of clothe and food produced on earth :)
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«  » by ThetaAbundance
What about the single parents or parents who can only make minimum wage, cannot afford childcare and rent together? What are they to do? May be I have what you are saying wrong.

If I were to get a regular job, working outside of the home, even making $22,000 (way above minimum wage I would only be able to pay rent and part of daycare, with little left to eat on. That does not even talk about gas, electricity, water, clothes, gas, healthcare.

So in that scenerio, what's the point of working when you won't have a place to live? If there is no assistance to offer (as in a socialist society) what are people to do?[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

[/COLOR]You say we should just take whatever we can get... not sure how that works. People judge those who get assistance (I haven't and don't..I some how have been able to not be in this situation) but seriously, how does what you state even keep people off the streets? Then add children in there.
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«  » by h0bby1
well i think it is still a shame that ppl cannot afford vital things , when they are avaible in enought quantity, beause they don't work and don't have a job, and the problem today is not really that there is not enought thing produced, shops are full =)
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«  » by lunchbox
if thats the case then whats the point of anyone working? know what i mean?
its our fault things are the way they are, and we are the only ones who can fix it, the more of us that count on the gov. for our lives the more power they have on us. ts a system of depravation and control, we give our souls for some security, i understand that sometimes we need help in our lives, especially when children are involved, but socialisim is one step from national socialisim, and i lost too much fam ill never know to support that route, we are the people, we are strong, but weve been conditioned to feel and think weak, and we know who did this to us, when the body detects an infestion it reacts and attempts to destroy what is hurting it, to not do so goes against the order of the universe, so the same is with our reality, we must fight for our birthright, a clean harmonius world where all can be accepted for who they are and not one where we have to beg and scrape to maintain the status quo![COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 08:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

[/COLOR]and thank you theta, your post is an excellent one, and i hope ive not hurt your feelings, im not use to expressing anger on-line and am probably being harsh im not trying to hurt just inform :)
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«  » by h0bby1
ho it is not a matter of gov or socialism, it is matter of the one who really produce the things, it is not the gov who produce anything, basically politics are kinda useless in term of production, they don't produce anything, you can't even tell they really do something for anybody in the country =)
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«  » by ThetaAbundance
I agree, just idealistic and may be a tad unrealistic. There are many great ideas that I have read or heard, but implementing them is another story.
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«  » by lunchbox
quite right, if the producers quit produceing...................what then?
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«  » by ThetaAbundance
[quote=lunchbox;361639]and thank you theta, your post is an excellent one, and i hope ive not hurt your feelings, im not use to expressing anger on-line and am probably being harsh im not trying to hurt just inform :)[/quote]

Not at all! I love discussing this subject and just rarely find someone who will talk about it. :D
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«  » by h0bby1
basically at the point where it is today, it is almost you have no job and not do something productive to get money, you can die in the street and ppl will tell you have to find a job, and well ppl will come into stealing or doing all kind of illegal or dirty buisness and organise outside of society as pirates did =) or they will need to put militaries in the shop and warehouses to protect them from the ppl who have no money :p
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«  » by lunchbox
oh good :) , yeah it is a touchy subject for alot of people[COLOR="Silver"]

[size=1:3ieo65es]---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------[/size:3ieo65es]

[/COLOR]
h0bby1 wrote:basically at the point where it is today, it is almost you have no job and not do something productive to get money, you can die in the street and ppl will tell you have to find a job, and well ppl will come into stealing or doing all kind of illegal or dirty buisness and organise outside of society as pirates did =) or they will need to put militaries in the shop and warehouses to protect them from the ppl who have no money :p


thus we come full circle, just as in the old days with strike breakers, and forced paid servitude, when will it end? when we take the world and shake it!
force the establishment that they have the jobs, but we have the manpower
but to do that we have to get off the government teat. not easy in the least but possible.
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«  » by h0bby1
but well the job system can be fair , you work, you have amount of money in exchange that permit you to get an amount of something in the economy of where you live, but basing everything from everything only on this is a bit unhuman also in the principle :p


well if the factories and things stop , or reduce then you can start to worry :) but well it won't happen, the thing is more on what is done with the production , producers are not even in control of what they produce,they don't know what is done with it, they don't know who it will be sold to at what price, they get money from coporations , and are most under paid btw, they moved lot of production where it is cheaper, which has always been a disavantage for everyone exepct those who own these factories who sell the products twice the price to ppl in a fake and over evaluated economy =)
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«  » by lunchbox
well said hobby well said,

thats why we need to stop produceing, and start makeing, and growing, decrease the demand, decrease the profit margin untill they give, of course the gov and corps will fight back as has been seen with the new bill to regulate small time organic growers, those who control the supply control the demand as long as we put up with it.
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