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Thread: Lucifer

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    Lucifer

    Often displayed as the devil or the 'Evil' one.
    But the name 'Lucifer' means 'brightest angel' if i'm not wrong.
    Is there anyone who can tell me something about 'Lucifer' or can give some interesting insights about (his) story.
    I heard that he has an important role in the way we got seperated from GOD, and in the way we percieve reality.


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    It is difficult to find any information of Lucifer that does not display him as evil.
    There are some fragments that grudgingly admit his intervention ultimately amounted to a better outcome than if he had not inserted himself into the events as they unfolded.
    There are some beliefs that he is the twin of Jesus Christ. Or they are one and same.

    He's just another angel to me. I like to keep it simple: God, Angels, Man

    God encompasses the Holy Trinity

    Angels encompass all entities that exist as sentient being with ability to perform actions when and where they choose.

    Man encompasses all of humanity, the ensouled and incarnate being.

    Clearly, Lucifer is creation of God and it is documented in goaspel that God/Jesus has dominion over angels. It also shows that God will utilize the tool that is best shaped to perform the task. With this thought in mind, I would venture that Lucifer is doing as he is compelled to do by God, either directly or indirectly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dikkels View Post
    Often displayed as the devil or the 'Evil' one.
    But the name 'Lucifer' means 'brightest angel' if i'm not wrong.
    Is there anyone who can tell me something about 'Lucifer' or can give some interesting insights about (his) story.
    I heard that he has an important role in the way we got seperated from GOD, and in the way we percieve reality.
    See the thread: The Nephilim, fallen angels..Under Spirituality..

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    Angry conflation and shadow

    The term "Lucifer" was first used in the Vulgate, a 400's translation from Greek into the popular language of the west, Latin. The term meant dawn star, or Venus. It is from a passage in Isaiah 14:12-15 which is about the fall of a great prince. His name was Helel in Hebrew, from the Canaanite name of a god as a star and son of the dawn. At the time the Vulgate was written, Lucifer was an acceptable name, but also that of a bishop who was a rival to the translator. It does not appear anywhere else in the Latin Bible. Later translations into western European languages retained the word. Lucifer was referred to in Dante's "Divine Comedy" in about 1320, and in Milton's "Paradise Lost" 1667. From these arose the conflation between the name of a star and the name of Satan.

    Satan also has a complex history. His (or "its") original function is more that of an adversary, like a prosecuting attorney. Look at the biblical story of Job. For thorough information on the subject, read "The Origin of Satan" by Elaine Pagels. The definitive research on Judeo-Christian views of evil.

    The name "Satan" has other lineages as well. Saturn, the Roman god of time; also the alchemical symbol of melancholy, seeming endlessness, and loss. With a scythe, a symbol of death. Satan and Saturn are derived from Set, the Egyptian neter, or "god." Who killed Osiris out of jealousy and cut up the body. Okay, that's nasty. But he, too, is a complex figure. Originally the god of the southern desert kingdom, the red lands. (Satan's color) An Egyptian neter is not like what we think of as a god. More a principle, a function. Set is that of limit, stasis, division. Which are negatives. Or shadow. But without limits, no individuals. Without division, no creation. But taken to extremes, boundaries are alienation, stasis is death, division is dissipation and war. So there is a difference between shadow functions and evil.
    "Beauty will save the world."--Dostoevsky

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    I have always read the discourse between Satan and whomever he is speaking with as a plaintiff and respondent format.
    I read Genisis with that mindset as well and it made the flow of the words seem vastly different.

    Didn't they used to call matches Lucifers?
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    In my hands I hold a candle whose flame is small to see,
    And if I give but one light to you my life is filled for me.
    But...In your hands you hold a torch for many eyes to see,
    So hold it high that they may light their candlewicks from thee... موم γλυφή !

    - By Faye


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    Read Paradise Lost by John Milton.

    That will give you a bit more insight into just how Lucifer thought, in the Catholic belief.

    I also suggest reading other religious texts: The Divine Comedy, Paradise Regained and what have you. Read up on Luciferianism, different forms of Satanism, Demonolatry, Demonology, etc. From what I've seen, understanding the "Darker" side gives more insight to the "Light". Most of my studies when I was young and "Searching" were directed at these belief systems.

    Lucifer actually means Child of Light. Pretty much, Lucifer is the representation of the choice to disconnect with God. Ask me questions and I can get into it deeper. :3

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    A pretty good look at the history of "the devil"

    A History of the Devil, Gerald Messadie, Book - Barnes & Noble

    “What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if,when you awoke,you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?”
    ― Samuel Taylor Coleridge


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    What did you think of the route to the heavenly realms in the Divine Comedy?

    I really enjoyed Dante's Inferno, it was quite a view. I loved the reversal and entrance to the heavenly realms.

    I have to agree, Psil, it is wise to view the whole spectrum to gain a better insight.

    It is curious and funny to me that the Catholic Religion issued a papal bull banishing Uriel from the heavenly host.
    I guess Lucifer is not the only dangerous angel.
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    In my hands I hold a candle whose flame is small to see,
    And if I give but one light to you my life is filled for me.
    But...In your hands you hold a torch for many eyes to see,
    So hold it high that they may light their candlewicks from thee... موم γλυφή !

    - By Faye


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    Exclamation correct references

    Yes, sshenry, that's a good reference!
    However, Psilocin's citations are not exactly correct. The 1667 epic poem by John Milton, "Paradise Lost," was influencial. But not Catholic. He was Protestant; a supporter of Parliament and the Puritan poisition. Which then meant strict separation of church and state. And an emphsis on personal conscience.
    As I posted below (with references), Dante did use the name Lucifer. But that name is based on a single use in the Vulgate (Latin) 400 AD translation of the Old Testament. Which is based on the Greek language version of Jewish Scriptures, called the Septuagint, done by Jews in Alexandria, Egypt around 200 BC. It is not synonymous with Satan. Therefore the name "Lucifer" does not refer to any theology of separation either by Jews or by early Christians. Later in Western popular Christianity there is a conflation of Satan and Lucifer. Because of Dante and the much later Milton.
    The idea of separation from God as an explanation of Satan is of course a theological concept. Separation is used also regarding human sin, and for the spiritual experience of what is called by Catholic mystics "the Dark Night of the Soul." A great exposition of what it is to be separated from God, as Psilocin pointed out, is in Dante's 1320 "Divine Comedy" through the character Lucifer.
    Last edited by rafi; 04-22-2009 at 07:48 PM. Reason: left out a sentence
    "Beauty will save the world."--Dostoevsky

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilocin View Post
    Read Paradise Lost by John Milton.

    That will give you a bit more insight into just how Lucifer thought, in the Catholic belief.

    I also suggest reading other religious texts: The Divine Comedy, Paradise Regained and what have you. Read up on Luciferianism, different forms of Satanism, Demonolatry, Demonology, etc. From what I've seen, understanding the "Darker" side gives more insight to the "Light". Most of my studies when I was young and "Searching" were directed at these belief systems.

    Lucifer actually means Child of Light. Pretty much, Lucifer is the representation of the choice to disconnect with God. Ask me questions and I can get into it deeper. :3
    Do you know more about this choice to disconnect with God and what the outcome of this choice was and what it means for us today. I just want to know more I read that Lucifer created an other Reality, do you know something about this? thanks for the books you mentioned i'll start reading them.

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    Here is another good site which explains the history of how angels fell from the grace of God, and how Lucifer came to be...

    Other Angelic Symbols

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    You called?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hearsekid View Post
    You called?
    So what happened Lucifer? Tell us the true story...

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    xxx
    Last edited by darksearch; 05-25-2009 at 04:03 AM.
    xxx

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    Well, you know what's all the rage now right? saying I dont exist. Eher, he doesnt exist.

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    oh that was weak Hk, I would have prefered a juicy revelation.
    I am a webbot

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    xxx
    Last edited by darksearch; 05-25-2009 at 04:02 AM.
    xxx

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    Nah that was a feeler to see who was watching I knew u were around darkie, rain I wasnt feelin lol...

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    xxx
    Last edited by darksearch; 05-25-2009 at 04:02 AM.
    xxx

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    What do you think about the Pope getting sick?

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