Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 60

Thread: The Rules

  1. #1
    i am a banana Calibas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Crestone, CO
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 601 Posts
    Referrals
    1
    Rep Power
    22

    The Rules

    We need rules right? Well, let's look at what rules have brought this world. The American Indians lived in relative peace and harmony for thousands of years. Not that they never fought with each other, but it was nothing compared to the wars going on in Europe at the time. They lived in cooperation with their neighbors and never had any need for strict sets of rules. Then the white man came and brought so-called civilization. He introduced things like property ownership, religion, all sorts of rules that we're supposed to keep people from fighting with each other. Then the white guys proceeded to slaughter the Indians by the hundreds of thousands. Their rules said they could do it. Even their religions, supposedly based upon a guy called the Prince of Peace, allowed for it. So the rules, that people swear up and down bring harmony to the world, brought the exact opposite and actually endorsed genocide.

    But that wasn't the case in the 20th century was it? That was a century when all sorts of rules were passed to enforce human rights, peace and equality. So did the rules achieve these things? Well, let's look at what happened after World War I. Nearly every country involved swore that would happen again and the leaders all made flowery speeches about peace. International organizations were founded and all sorts of rules were passed to make sure a war that destructive would never happen again. People went back to sleep naively believing all their rules and treaties would protect them. Then, about a generation after WWI, when a new crop of young men was ripe for the plucking, the bloodiest war the world has ever known broke out. And there have been constant wars since then despite the United Nations and all the peace treaties and the disarmaments and so forth. We have heaps of rules designed to enforce morality upon the world, and yet the same countries who penned those rules are, at this very moment, dumping millions of dollars into finding more efficient and destructive ways to kill their fellow human beings. So, do rules work? Well, after looking at the facts, any rational human being is going to have to start questioning the assumption that rules bring us peace and tranquility.

    The United States has thousands upon thousands of rules designed to create peace, freedom, equality and prosperity. And yet for all these rules designed to prevent crime and injustice, the US has the highest prison population in the world. A country founded on freedom, with all sorts of rules to enforce this, has far more people it keeps in tiny cages than countries far larger than the US. The rules simply don't prevent crime, they encourage it. They don't prevent injustice, they are the injustice. In trying to make people obedient to the system, the rules mostly just breed resentment of the system. In a democracy people are supposed to be passionate about their government. We've created a system where people are mostly just apathetic. Many “criminals” no longer care if they go to jail anymore. They're persecuted just as much, if not more, on the outside. At least in prison they're guaranteed a meal and a roof over their head.

    Now I've given examples of the rules not working, but why is it that they don't work? Simple, rules and morals deny the very essence of what it means to be human. We all have a conscience, everyone is able to tell right from wrong, to determine what they should and shouldn't be doing. Through seeing the results of our actions, assisted by our expanding understandings, our conscience matures and grows. How do outside morals and rules interfere with this? They teach people to ignore their own conscience. When we follow outside rules, we don't develop our personal sense of right and wrong. Without that, it's quite easy for others to convince us of all sorts of things. Conscience is a “use it or lose it” type of deal, and it's the same with intelligence. The external rules teach us not to use our own brains. So all these morals and rules forced upon people only cause their own conscience to atrophy. It doesn't teach them to behave like a moral human being, it teaches them to behave like an unquestioning machine.

    Now, there's one argument that always comes up when someone suggests that rules aren't needed. It is: “If we didn't have rules people would just run around killing each other”. I have only to point to all the wars in the past, and those occurring right now, to show this isn't true. Not only do the rules not prevent people from killing each other, they often force people to kill each other. The governments and religions that tell us “Thou shall not kill” are the same organizations that tell us when it's okay to kill our fellow human beings. Talk about insane. So what causes people to kill each other if it's not a lack of rules? The military knows all about this, just ask them. They know damn well that people aren't born to kill, they're trained to. It takes months of heavy brain-washing to get people to kill each other, it's simply not a natural human behavior. You have to train them not to think for themselves, but to behave like machines and you have to get them to view their fellow humans as machines as well. Human beings don't kill human beings, only machines kill machines.

    There's a very damaging belief I'd like to address here, the idea that people are born evil. Take Hitler for instance, many people believe he's evil incarnate. People believe his crimes were unforgivable and the world's much better off with him dead. I could go say these things publicly and people would probably cheer me on. What most people fail to realize, is the way so many people feel about Hitler, is the same way Hitler felt about the Jews. Hitler thought the Jews were born evil, just like people think Hitler was born evil. Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by killing off the Jewish race, just like people think Hitler's death was a favor to the world. It's the exact same line of reasoning. In thinking Hitler was just pain evil, people avoid questioning why he did the things he did and what led him to such poisoned beliefs. It's no wonder people don't want to look at this, because many would find the roots of Hitler's madness planted within their own minds. In thinking people are just plain evil, we don't prevent such atrocities, we actually encourage them. It's the exact same reasoning that allowed for the Holocaust.

    Now, what does the idea that people are born evil have to do with the original subject of rules? I mentioned before that many people believe that without rules there'd be nothing to stop people from stealing from and killing each other. So if this is the case, then people must be inherently lawless and immoral before they're taught rules and morals. I say this simply isn't true and that each being is born with Love in their Hearts. Peace and tranquility is humanity's natural state and all the rules that we teach people do nothing to encourage this. In fact, to get people to accept a system of rules, you have to teach them that their current way of thinking is somehow flawed. Religion figured this out long ago and called it “original sin”. People are taught that humans were flawed from the very beginning and the only way around this is to follow all the rules religion gives us.

    The implication behind all rules is that without them we'd do “bad” things. Now, thought is creative and when you teach people that they're inherently evil, some people are going to play the part. If you tell a person that humanity is selfish and greedy for long enough, that person's going to act selfish and greedy. The ignorant point to this as evidence that we need rules. I say it simply shows the awesome Creative Power of thought. Imagine if people saw nothing but Love within themselves and their fellow human beings. Do you think they'd treat each other the way most do now? Do you think we'd need thousands of rules to stop people from wronging each other? I tell you that Humanity living this way is fully possible right now. When people find Peace in their own Hearts, having external system to enforce a false sense of peace is absurd.

    Love,
    Will
    Kingdom of Heaven: Galactic Central - Love, Light and Truth
    ॐ Breathe ॐ

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Calibas For This Useful Post:

    cjmax02 (06-18-2009), Greenguy (06-18-2009), leila (06-20-2009), turtledove (06-20-2009)

  3. #2
    Forum Caretaker sshenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    beyond belief
    Posts
    24,527
    Blog Entries
    104
    Thanks
    2,645
    Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,787 Posts
    Referrals
    2
    Rep Power
    82
    Beautiful post Will, thank you (I'm out again, darn it! )

    you know, one only has to look at the acts of selflessness and "heroism" that happen during times of stress and chaos - when the rules have broken down - (fires, earthquakes, manmade catastrophes like 9/11 or the Oklahoma City bombings) when people risk their lives to help their fellow man - and for no other reason then they can.

    nine times out of ten the pointless violence - man against man - occurs within the rules, and in many cases perhaps even in reaction to them.

    “What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if,when you awoke,you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?”
    ― Samuel Taylor Coleridge


    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sshenry For This Useful Post:

    Calibas (06-18-2009), turtledove (06-20-2009)

  5. #3
    Global Forum Caretaker rabana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    p'aca
    Posts
    13,684
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    2,602
    Thanked 5,380 Times in 3,484 Posts
    Referrals
    4
    Rep Power
    74
    you're talking about the true meaning of the "a" word (anarchy- shhhhh!). literally it means without rule. it does not means chaos. it means individuals responsible for their own conduct. as a friend put it "people that can't govern themselves can't be governed."

    mexico has so few rules compared to the usa. i watch these upper middle class americans in this newly resortish town (the new resorts have all gone bust in the last 2 weeks but thats another topic)-- they remind me of animals who have been caged all their lives. you open the door of the cage and they are afraid to come out. they demand more rules at public meetings or occasionally they get together and publish a list of rules they'd like to see.
    !soil first! every garden is an experiment no experiment is a failure
    ------------------------------------**
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    eat lots of salad!
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    **-----------------------------------

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rabana For This Useful Post:

    leila (06-20-2009), turtledove (06-20-2009)

  7. #4
    Forum Caretaker sshenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    beyond belief
    Posts
    24,527
    Blog Entries
    104
    Thanks
    2,645
    Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,787 Posts
    Referrals
    2
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by rabana View Post
    they remind me of animals who have been caged all their lives. you open the door of the cage and they are afraid to come out. they demand more rules at public meetings or occasionally they get together and publish a list of rules they'd like to see.
    lol, that reminds me of the book THE STAND by Stephen King. It's the end of the world - 98% of the population is dead, and what do the survivors do? They gather together and reinstate the constitution of the United States

    A perfect chance to reorganize from the ground up and they resort to that which they "know".


    “What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if,when you awoke,you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?”
    ― Samuel Taylor Coleridge


    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


  8. #5
    Global Forum Caretaker rabana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    p'aca
    Posts
    13,684
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    2,602
    Thanked 5,380 Times in 3,484 Posts
    Referrals
    4
    Rep Power
    74
    i hated that book. the only steven king i ever read. the first and the last. someone gave it to me because they thought i would like it. everyone died of the flu, right? then the rest all congregated in boulder?-- puke--
    !soil first! every garden is an experiment no experiment is a failure
    ------------------------------------**
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    eat lots of salad!
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    **-----------------------------------

  9. #6
    i am a banana Calibas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Crestone, CO
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 601 Posts
    Referrals
    1
    Rep Power
    22
    I was careful not to use the word law. There's only one Law and that's Love. I agree completely with Crowley in that aspect.
    ॐ Breathe ॐ

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Calibas For This Useful Post:

    leila (06-20-2009)

  11. #7
    Indigo Enthusiast mellisamouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,803
    Thanks
    611
    Thanked 454 Times in 296 Posts
    Rep Power
    10
    None of their "rules" are actually legal....


    This ad goes away when you register.

    I did not come to planet earth and come out of a womans womb and say " I vote to be homeless on a huge plant full of vacant land", I never said, "I allow scorrupt strangers to make my decisions for me, that I am perfectly capable of making for myself"...

    They honestly have no real rights to you....it is illusion that people ALLOW to rule over them....

    If 99% of the population said....."ummm excuse me but I don't think so"... they would be completely poweless, but unfortunatly for them they say. "duhhhh ok!"...

    Their rules only apply to those who let them apply etc....

    There is no way to explain it, but try travelling all over the world a few times with no passport or ID, and see if you can get away with it....

    YOU CAN, if you believe you can.... I have done it many times.........it sounds crazy, but it works.

    ---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

    It is kinda like a "namaste" thing that happens...your higher self lets down your sheild and talks to their higher self....you kind of send the message... "I know that is part of their game, but I forgot mine, so just pretend you didn't notice I forgot, and no one will know the difference" etc....

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mellisamouse For This Useful Post:

    Calibas (06-18-2009), carin4emall (06-19-2009), ThetaAbundance (06-18-2009)

  13. #8
    Member kj35779's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    117
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
    Rep Power
    5
    When people set rules your telling other people that we don't trust you to make good choices on your own. Its like parents who are overbearing they cause retaliation and rebellion and sometimes voilence.. This seems no different. You give little to no wiggle room creatively then choas breaks out, sad.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kj35779 For This Useful Post:

    bijon (06-19-2009), Calibas (06-18-2009), Greenguy (06-18-2009)

  15. #9
    Forum Caretaker sshenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    beyond belief
    Posts
    24,527
    Blog Entries
    104
    Thanks
    2,645
    Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,787 Posts
    Referrals
    2
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by rabana View Post
    i hated that book. the only steven king i ever read. the first and the last. someone gave it to me because they thought i would like it. everyone died of the flu, right? then the rest all congregated in boulder?-- puke--
    I actually liked the first part - where everyone was dying (not the dying, but his telling about the flu etc. weaving the story together etc). Once they started fallowing 'mother abigail' or the 'walkin dude' I started loosing interest

    final battle of good and evil

    “What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if,when you awoke,you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?”
    ― Samuel Taylor Coleridge


    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


  16. #10
    i am a banana Calibas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Crestone, CO
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 601 Posts
    Referrals
    1
    Rep Power
    22
    Wanna know something funny? I'm now silenced in a Care2 group called "Spirituality - Through The Eyes Of An Open-Mind" because of this post. I called rules ignorant and now they're ignoring me because I broke the rules. I couldn't have hoped for a better illustration of my point.

    Apparently this post has nothing to do with Spirituality... I figured it would offend a few people. Someone else told me I'm seriously screwed up and I come to faulty conclusions though they didn't give a single reason as to why.
    ॐ Breathe ॐ

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Calibas For This Useful Post:

    Greenguy (06-18-2009)

  18. #11
    Global Forum Caretaker tmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    In Faith of Holy Trinity
    Posts
    10,090
    Blog Entries
    30
    Thanks
    4,728
    Thanked 3,324 Times in 2,478 Posts
    Referrals
    3
    Rep Power
    54
    In a perfect world we would all care for each other over our own needs. Give up our personal wealth, devote time to helping others and expand oppurtunity to every corner of the globe. Whether there are rules or not, is irrelevant. The only way to eliminate rules is to overcome the reason for the rules.

    Rules were not instated after WWI to Eliminate war, they were put in place to mitigate the horrendous damage to civilians and noncombatants.

    Hitler wasn't evil, he was a megalomaniac. He used the Jewish community as a scape goat because they are a target of gentiles around the globe. A place to galvanize hate and still feel rightious. Hitler targeted many ethnic groups for eradication. He was no more evil than the people who followed his mindset with a zealous glee. We Americans would have cheerfully watched from the sidelines as the world continued fighting WWII, which began in 1932 with the occupation of Poland by Germany, except for the ridiculous attack launched against our Navy at Pearl Harbor.

    One could surmise that Roosevelt was evil due to his policy of not getting involved sooner.
    I don't believe limiting rules or expanding rules has any real effect other than to add to the prison population. The cause should be the focus, not the act itself. Why do people turn to crime, violence, and self destruction? What nations maintain themselves without war or standing armies? Why are they able to exist and thrive?

    Those are the questions to ask. The potential solutions can be found, if we start with individual checks and balances. But no one wants to give up anything, its all about what I can get or get away with in this world. Why not live by the rules, practice giving as much or as little as able, and quit shaking one fist at the govenment while grabbing as much government sponsered freebies with the other hand as possible.

    No one is perfect and crime is a fact of life in any society. Rules are needful as much of society would not respect right of ownership but for the potential repercussions. Indians had very complex societies with plenty of rules. They just did not have division of land or recognize ownership of land in the way of the european settlers. They damn sure had territories divided by their own complex rules. And retaliation for disregard of their rules.

    America has more people in prison than any other country because we base our law on the assumption of rehabilitation of criminals. Not in the practical sense that creates a safety net of programs to return a convict to society as a productive member. But based on the assumption of time served for crime perpetrated. So the crimanal does his time and is kicked loose. With no real attempt to integrate him or her into society in a way that would give him a foundation of strength in positive friendships and economic endeavors. They go their own way and fall back into the same niches, same crowds and same habits.

    Anarchy would not work and never has in any free society. The price of free society is those members of society that think the world owes them a living coupled with social programs that provide that living but only to the base level of subsistence.

    Toss out law if you want but then be sure to throw out free bennies as well. No more taxes, no more free education, no welfare, no WIC, no medical, no social security, no programs or grants for college education. No road service, no city works, public transportation, or free medical for emergency care. No fire dept, no police, no forest rangers, no peace officers. No programs for helping anyone. I could hire my own goons to protect me, with the money I would save on not paying fica, state, and federal taxes every two weeks.
    Last edited by tmt; 06-18-2009 at 09:29 PM.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    In my hands I hold a candle whose flame is small to see,
    And if I give but one light to you my life is filled for me.
    But...In your hands you hold a torch for many eyes to see,
    So hold it high that they may light their candlewicks from thee... موم γλυφή !

    - By Faye



    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    む ム 無 む موم Superluminal Supporter موم む 無 ム む

  19. #12
    i am a banana Calibas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Crestone, CO
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 601 Posts
    Referrals
    1
    Rep Power
    22
    What if people cooperated out of Love for each other?
    ॐ Breathe ॐ

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  20. #13
    Global Forum Caretaker tmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    In Faith of Holy Trinity
    Posts
    10,090
    Blog Entries
    30
    Thanks
    4,728
    Thanked 3,324 Times in 2,478 Posts
    Referrals
    3
    Rep Power
    54
    Then we wouldn't need rules. But then who defines what cooperation is? Am I cooperating if I am a kazillionare with a palace and untold wealth and I give a free bucket of grits to every starving child I deem worthy?

    What if I don't love you, just your BMW, so I take it. Do I have the right to it because I need a ride that looks as good as I think I deserve?

    What if I only love people with my same ethnic background, is that ok? Why or why not? Or only people that speak the same language as me? Or the people in my immediate community but I don't know those people in the next city over so why should I help them? is that acceptable cooperation? Or am I selfish to give here but not there?

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    In my hands I hold a candle whose flame is small to see,
    And if I give but one light to you my life is filled for me.
    But...In your hands you hold a torch for many eyes to see,
    So hold it high that they may light their candlewicks from thee... موم γλυφή !

    - By Faye



    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    む ム 無 む موم Superluminal Supporter موم む 無 ム む

  21. #14
    i am a banana Calibas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Crestone, CO
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 601 Posts
    Referrals
    1
    Rep Power
    22
    Those things you're talking about are not what I'd call Real Love.

    My post is just pointing out that despite all the rules, we're still essentially lawless. I live in a country where the last president lied to start a war which resulted in at least a hundred thousands deaths. And he's still free.

    Do the rules prevent anarchy? My country repeatedly uses the rules to create anarchy in other countries.
    ॐ Breathe ॐ

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  22. #15
    Global Forum Caretaker tmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    In Faith of Holy Trinity
    Posts
    10,090
    Blog Entries
    30
    Thanks
    4,728
    Thanked 3,324 Times in 2,478 Posts
    Referrals
    3
    Rep Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Calibas View Post
    What if people cooperated out of Love for each other?
    I'm not sure how rules inhibit cooperation. Perhaps that is my problem. Rules are irrelevant, if you would conduct yourself in a responsible and caring manner irregardless of the rules. Rules are irrelevant to those that abide by them by their own moral compass anyway. Common courtesy and respect for others are guidelines to follow and if you do, then you are following the rules anyway so who cares if there are rules or not?

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    In my hands I hold a candle whose flame is small to see,
    And if I give but one light to you my life is filled for me.
    But...In your hands you hold a torch for many eyes to see,
    So hold it high that they may light their candlewicks from thee... موم γλυφή !

    - By Faye



    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    む ム 無 む موم Superluminal Supporter موم む 無 ム む

  23. #16
    i am a banana Calibas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Crestone, CO
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanks
    373
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 601 Posts
    Referrals
    1
    Rep Power
    22
    I totally agree that rules are irrelevant. I think the most important thing I spoke about is in the 4th paragraph:
    How do outside morals and rules interfere with this? They teach people to ignore their own conscience. When we follow outside rules, we don't develop our personal sense of right and wrong. Without that, it's quite easy for others to convince us of all sorts of things. Conscience is a “use it or lose it” type of deal, and it's the same with intelligence. The external rules teach us not to use our own brains. So all these morals and rules forced upon people only cause their own conscience to atrophy. It doesn't teach them to behave like a moral human being, it teaches them to behave like an unquestioning machine.
    That's the problem with rules. It's the implications behind them.
    ॐ Breathe ॐ

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  24. #17
    Global Forum Caretaker tmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    In Faith of Holy Trinity
    Posts
    10,090
    Blog Entries
    30
    Thanks
    4,728
    Thanked 3,324 Times in 2,478 Posts
    Referrals
    3
    Rep Power
    54
    So President Bush started a war? When was this? Before or after we were attacked by terrorists? I am just trying to define when the war started? Was it on 9/11 attack of two towers, pentagon, etc? Or the 1995 attack on two towers? Did it begin then? Or when Kuwait was invaded? And we stepped in and liberated them? Perhaps you mean in Somalia? When we went in as protection for peace workers like UNICEF to provide prtection so the peace workers could provide life sustaining relief to a multitude of innocent noncombatents? Did killing the pirates by sniper fire ordered by Obama fall under the same category of starting a war? why or why not? Are we the cause of all the disharmony in the 2nd world nations of the middle east? Or just the ones that blame America?

    Should Israel be torn to pieces by her neighboring countries? Should we allow ethnic cleansing and human rights violations based on religious traditions? Should wemen be banned from education in other nations because they had the misfortune of being born in the wrong time and place for a woman to be treated as a full citizen instead of a servant of men? Should we step back and let the violence go as it will and shrug our shoulders? Its not our nation after all. Its not our way of life, they chose it right? Or perhaps we should just blame our elected officials for every act of kindness extended to other nations? Maybe it would be better if we cut off all American "interference" all the food and resources as well as military presence. Would that be better? Maybe we should end all education exchange students, all university joint projects, all doctors travelling to impoverished regions to help the indigent people receive relief? Or should we just end military, soldiers and their works? Please be clear, do you feel we should just leave altogether or just stop fighting the terrorist activity? And when should we become outraged by acts of war by other peoples bent on hate? Whom should we target to limit the access to our people and the danger of violence from others? If the terrorists are to be contained and eliminated, we must be able to follow their trail and remove their ability to cause harm. How would you say this should be done?

    ---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------

    How would you teach a man raised as a strict Muslim that it is wrong to expect a woman to be subservient to that man? Or a woman raised in the same society that it is wrong to be expected to live at the whim of her husband. Or a child of their union? If you disparage their way of life, invite radical ideals like equality to that society and that society becomes enraged by the usurption of their values for tainted values of heretical societies, are they wrong? Should we just let them be? If so, should one of those men or women start their own movement of change, should we offer no encouragement or aide toward change? Assuming we just stay out but that society is under the assumption that we are driving force behind unrest in their society, so they target us in violent ways do we retaliate? That only validates their beliefs of hatred and evil american sata, right? So we do nothing? How many attacks and innocent citizens that die at the hands of expatriots in America for the sole purpose of violence are acceptable?

    If we do nothing, we risk our people. If we retaliate, we risk our own people. If we ask them nicely to respect our rights and respect their right to their own way of life, is that the solution? I think that is what we should do, just step back in public and private sectors. Advise americans to travel at own risk and ignore all degradation of women and human rights violations perpetrated in other countries. Eventually, they will destroy themselves and regroup under a nice free society on their own. Albiet millions will die for lack of care and violence but hey, not our problem. We have to respect their right to sell women as child brides and to public execution of educators that speak out against the status quo. We are not our brother keeper right? And if they come here with their violence, we should just berate ourselves for not catching them prior to the act of violence. Maybe sue homeland security for negligence and deport the terrorists back home on our dime?

    What is cooperation and love? I would imagine those items would be defined very differently by region and nationality. Perhaps a universal definition and enforcement of cooperation and love. If we could decide what that would be, defined as maybe: love and compassion for others.

    So I am a loving and compassionate person, with a set of religious beliefs that include the subjugation of women, the priest caste as only male and the children defined as saved when they undergo a ceremony of acceptance of God by a rite of passage at an age my religion deems is old enough to understand right from wrong. My daughters dress modestly and my sons as well. We all enjoy the fruit of our labors and work as a community to help each other.

    Now you come along and advise me I need to cooperate and love based on your definition. Why is your definition of these attributes better than mine? Why should my way of life be changed to your way of life? What happens if I refuse to accept your definition? What if I agree in public but secretly adhere to my own definition? And then I'm discovered? What happens then? And who decides? You?

    What if my community is horribly deprived with no value but the people of the community? All of our resources must be bartered from other communities and we have nothing to trade but our sweat and effort. Your community doesn't need our hard working people, you have your own. Do we then receive your goods for free? And in unlimited abundane? Or do you provide a set amount regardless of our need? What if we start producing more people, more population do you expand your cooperation to fill the additional need? Will we eventually be subject to limits in reproduction? Why or why not?

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    In my hands I hold a candle whose flame is small to see,
    And if I give but one light to you my life is filled for me.
    But...In your hands you hold a torch for many eyes to see,
    So hold it high that they may light their candlewicks from thee... موم γλυφή !

    - By Faye



    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    む ム 無 む موم Superluminal Supporter موم む 無 ム む

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to tmt For This Useful Post:

    leila (06-20-2009)

  26. #18
    Indigo Enthusiast Dazed'nd'Confuzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Milkway Galaxy, Solas System, Earth, Ireland
    Posts
    1,238
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    258
    Thanked 375 Times in 226 Posts
    Rep Power
    10
    A society will only need rules when it lacks true spirituality.
    The most powerful teachers are those who challenge us to resolve the lessons within ourselves, forcing us to find the source of our healing, peace, love and power from our own resources. They don't refuse to love us because we are unlovable, although that is what we believe, their role is to get us to go within for whatever we are seeking.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Dazed'nd'Confuzed For This Useful Post:

    Dabbs (06-19-2009)

  28. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    279
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 35 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    4
    xxx
    Last edited by NoAccident; 06-21-2009 at 05:35 AM.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to NoAccident For This Useful Post:

    Calibas (06-19-2009)

  30. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    279
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 35 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    4
    xxx
    Last edited by NoAccident; 06-21-2009 at 05:33 AM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 10 Rules for Being Human
    By One in forum Indigo Cafe
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-13-2009, 08:03 PM
  2. No RULES!
    By IDontKnow in forum Indigo Cafe
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-16-2009, 09:18 PM
  3. 10 Rules for Being Human
    By MiamiSound in forum Indigo Cafe
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-26-2008, 12:08 PM
  4. Rules for Being Human
    By prometheus in forum Indigo Cafe
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-20-2008, 03:48 PM
  5. There are no rules, just consequences
    By hrishi in forum General Spirituality
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-12-2008, 05:25 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •