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Thread: mental illness and spirituality- "shaman sickness" and integration

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    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    mental illness and spirituality- "shaman sickness" and integration

    felt moved to share some of what i have been reading this afternoon.
    it's even longer than this, heres most of the writing:
    http://www.jungcircle.com/embrace.html

    embracing the fragmented self

    What we call schizophrenic is, as Joseph Campbell has discussed, called (positively) visionary or mystical in shamanic cultures, hence is valued, not feared or sedated with chemicals. As he clarifies in the well-known [1988] TV series, "The Power of Myth", 'The shaman is the person, male or female, who . . . has an overwhelming psychological experience that turns him totally inward. It's a kind of schizophrenic crack-up. The whole unconscious opens up, and the shaman falls into it. This shaman experience has been described many, many times. It occurs all the way from Siberia right through the Americas down to Tierra del Fuego.'
    Hence working with sufferers of schizophrenia from a shamanic angle can be helpful, since the shaman has in all likelihood experienced similar experiences to those of the schizophrenic. Mainstream reductionist psychiatrists, on the other hand, by and large presume that if an experience (such as chronic depression) is unpleasant, it must be stopped or band-aided, but because an experience is painful or difficult, it doesn't necessarily follow that's it's not valuable, or therapeutically worthwhile as a 'wound which heals'.
    As Mircea Eliade has recounted in detail, shamanic initiation is often unpleasant, even at times horrific, and can involve being mythically stripped to the skeleton, dismemberment, or being taken to pieces. If the schizophrenic can work through these kinds of processes with an empathetic therapist, s/he may be able to find healing and some ego stability at the other end of the ordeal. I know of other schizophrenics who have courageously gone off of medication and helped each other through such processes, or (more rarely) who have worked through them alone.
    When dealing with soul loss in cases less extreme than the patient's death or otherwise totally helpless condition, we are more often that not dealing with a fragmentation of the personality through which an amount of psychic energy is split off in a particular way. Firstly, all of us in certain normal phases of intensified conflict, depression, infatuation, or complex activation lose soul-energy by diffusing, or radiating, or contagiously transmitting shadow or archetypal contents of the unconscious (note that I prefer not to use the term 'projection', which implies that soul is exclusively an inner quality, rather than an all-pervasive matrix). Secondly, in pathological cases in which the personality is disempowered, or poorly adapted to outer reality, the absent energy can be trapped or frozen in splinter personalities that may have formed through the development of a complex, through traumatic dissociation, acquired neurosis, or through the onset of schizophrenia or psychosis.


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    As always, the question becomes: when is the wounded condition or dissociated state, or loss of soul overridingly, or ultimately debilitating? Given the close correlation between schizophrenic breakdown and shamanic initiation, the shaman in dealing with schizophrenia is faced with a possible dilemma. As she knows from her own experience, it is the schizophrenic who can self-heal and reintegrate who has the makings of a shaman. If she intervenes prematurely, or unnecessarily, she may be robbing the schizophrenic of an authentic initiation experience. Here her ability as psychotherapist comes into play when she is called upon to to discern the significance of key developments in the schizophrenic's dreams, visions, voices, and degrees of adaptation to outer reality. One is reminded here also of the mandala drawings of some schizophrenics, which sometimes feature a fragmented centre, the chaos of which is spontaneously compensated by a symmetrically ordered circumference.
    As Stanislav Grof has discussed, shamanism involves fantastic inner journeys into the collective unconscious. 'Those individuals who successfully integrate their inner journeys,' Grof adds, 'become familiar with the territories of the psyche. Such individuals are also capable of transmitting this knowledge to others and of guiding them along their path . . . The dramatic initiation experiences of shamans that involve powerful death-rebirth sequences are interpreted by Western psychiatrists and anthropologists as indicative of mental disease. Usually referred to as "shamanic disease", they are discussed in relation to schizophrenia, hysteria, or epilepsy.
    'This reflects the typical bias of Western mechanistic science and is clearly a culture-bound value judgment, rather than an objective scientific opinion. Cultures that acknowledge and venerate shamans do not apply the title shaman to just any individual with bizarre behavior, as Western scholars would like to believe. They distinguish very clearly between shamans and individuals who are sick and insane. Genuine shamans have had powerful, unusual experiences and have managed to integrate them in a creative and productive way. They have to be able to handle everyday reality as well as, or even better than, their fellow tribesmen. In addition, they have experiential access to other levels and realms of reality and can facilitate nonordinary states of consciousness in others for healing and transformative purposes. They this show superior functioning and "higher sanity", rather than maladjustment and insanity. It is simply not true that every bizarre and incomprehensible behavior would pass for sacred among uneducated aboriginal people.'(2)
    The psychotic by definition differs from the 'normal' person in that the psychotic's ego, or conscious personality, is overwhelmed by the archetypal forces of the unconscious to the extent that s/he can no longer distinguish between inner and outer, and so can't function as a responsible citizen. Not all sufferers of schizophrenia are psychotic, but many experience similar difficulty in forming an effective barrier between their sense of personal identity (moderated by the ego) and the invasive or disruptive forces of the archetypal unconscious; hence, as Jung makes clear, the importance of having a stable ego if one is to contend with visions and voices and still be able to function in the outer world.

    Schizophrenia: The Shaman Sickness

    The path is always lonely and demanding for those called to shamanism, and doubly so for those who must contend with Western culture's refusal to accept the overwhelming reality of the disturbing realms of vision and torment in which these potential shamans dwell. Along with having to endure the loss of ego stability, hence the frightening blurring of outer and inner realites, sufferers of schizophrenia are often forced to contend with psychiatric notions, ruled by the Apollonian myth of reason, monotheism and normality, which demand that such "deviant" Dionysian states be subdued with medication, or punished with incarceration in mental institutions.
    The schizophrenic's reason and senses, like those of the shaman during initiation, are assaulted by concrete revelations of the heights and depths of the vast Otherworlds of the collective unconscious. Simultaneously, the schizophrenic is forced to slot into the sometimes petty humdrum and routine of daily existence. The invasion of the ego by archetypal forces transforms the individual profoundly and irreversibly; no-one who has endured such a crisis can confine the expanded horizons of their consciousness to the tame boundaries of cultural norms. Yet instead of encouraging and bolstering the development of such transcendental levels of awareness, mainstream psychiatry seeks - out of fear of the unknown, the unconscious, the numinous, the irrational and the abnormal - to stifle it under the euphemistic and patronising guise of 'treatment'.
    The schizophrenic, being intensely introverted is automatically poorly adapted in a society which narrowly defines personal identity in terms of appearance, behaviour and social status. S/he lives in a discontinuous reality which can become a terrifying bombardment of overlapping realities, voices and chaotic perceptions. Everything takes on mythical overtones. The players in the archetypal dramas are often gods who are potentially both benevolent and destructive. Mainstream psychiatry deals with this overload by numbing the mind and trying to force the individual to readjust to cultural norms. At the same time, the "patient" is robbed of a unique mode of learning that many schizophrenics sense to be immensely valuable and worth pursuing. And unfortunately the law is in the psychiatrists' hands to take away what others treasure as an experience of the awesome power of the sacred.

    Soul Loss & the Land of the Dead

    If the schizophrenic is overwhelmed and debilitated by experiences on which the mystic thrives, the shaman treads, or rather hops along a multidirectional path between centred focus and woundedness, fragmentation and soul pathology. In shamanic ecstatic trance, the ego is not submerged but rather deliberately and temporarily displaced, destabilised or disempowered for the purpose of trance-journeying. The schizophrenic's loss of ego, however, does not parallel the mature and responsible shaman's subsequent healing vocation; it is rather akin to shamanic initiation, which can be quite traumatic or devastating, as the following personal accounts illustrate(3):
    David, a sufferer of schizophrenia, recalls:
    "I then felt some part of myself slip down through the crack in the pavement, down to the underworld, while another part of myself remained upon the pavement. I am currently trying to make further sense of this experience in relation to Ancient Egyptian belief, as, certainly during the early dynasties, they had a working knowledge of the Land of the Dead, much of which has been fortunately rediscovered, and is known to us as The Egyptian Book of the Dead."
    From the perspective of Egyptian myth, it is the double or "ka" which goes on walkabout when a schism appears in the world of the schizophrenic. It can be extremely confusing when information is received from two entirely different places simultaneously. This is, though, in certain phases of development or pathology, a natural state of affairs. In shamanic practice, there are entities who take care of visitors to other realms, so it sometimes helps if the schizophrenic is assured that s/he is not alone. Often, just simply being aware that one is in two different places at once is sufficient to engender a little understanding of the process, thereby making it much easier to deal with. At times, I have made suggestions along the lines of, 'Well, your double is yours and yours only - see if you can call it back to you if you feel things are getting out of control.'
    As Jung notes, activation of the Land of the Dead is often associated with soul loss. In 1916, shortly before his uncanny experience of a band of spirits from ancient Jerusalem visiting his home and ringing the doorbell, Jung wrote down a fantasy of his soul having flown away from him. Since the soul as anima is mediatrix to the unconscious, in a sense she relates as well to the realm of the dead, since the unconscious corresponds to the ancestral, mythic land of the dead. Hence if one fantasises about the soul vanishing, it means that it has withdrawn into the unconscious as the land of the dead. Here, as Jung notes, it produces an animation which gives visible forms to the ancestral traces, this giving the dead a chance to manifest themselves. Soon after the disappearance of Jung's soul, the dead appeared to him and the result was his Seven Sermons to the Dead, written in the person of his (then) spirit guide, the Gnostic scholar Basilides. Jung considered this to be an instance of loss of soul, which, as he notes, is a phenomenon often found among primitives. (4)
    Interestingly, one eulogy for Jung contained the remark that he was a schizophrenic who healed himself, precisely the definition of an initiated shaman. Indeed, a discussion of the blatant shamanic elements of Jung's life forms a fascinating study in itself. Briefly and broadly, I'll mention here his converse with his spirit guides, which included a Wise Old Man figure, Philemon, and later his attendant, the blind girl Salome; his detailed and vivid familiarity with the landscapes of the collective unconscious, his shamanic ability to help others navigate this potentially dangerous terrain, his prophetic and sometimes disturbingly powerful dreams and visions, his early fear of madness and his double personality, his shamanic dream of becoming a woman, and his initiatiory midlife crisis that began with his taking a courageous plunge alone into the Abyss.
    After breaking with Freud, Jung confronted the unconscious alone, primarily through exploring his dreams and visions, and as an intrepid voyager ventured into largely unchartered and potentially dangerous waters. Early in his psychiatric career Jung was understandably alarmed that his visions were strikingly similar to those of many of his patients at the Burgholzli Mental Hospital. Fearing madness, Jung was repeatedly assailed by a vision of sections of Europe becoming bathed in a sea of blood. It was during the 1914 outbreak of war that he realized that his visions of the previous year had been an ominous prophecy rather than a reference to himself.
    Jung, although he does not denigrate shamanism, nonetheless views it early in his career as an expression of a primitive consciousness which views soul as external, or projected, while contemporary therapists tend to focus on psyche as an inner structure and dynamic. But these either-or perspectives are, I suggest, both inadequate spatial metaphors, or verbal conventions that say little about how we and the World actually experience soul. Jung's later experiences, for instance, betray his own externalization of soul, as is revealed when he recounts in his autobiography that he feels at times 'spread out over the landscape and inside things and am myself living in every tree, in the plashing of the waves, in the clouds and animals that come and go, in the procession of the seasons . . .' Further on, Jung ends his autobiography with the confession that 'plants, animals, clouds, day and night' fill him such that he feels a 'kinship with all things.'(5)
    If, then, individuation does not shut one out from the world but rather gathers the world to itself, so soul-making gathers the individual to all-pervasive soul, anima mundi expanding into the even more inclusive sphere of unus mundus. Here, through the explosion of the isolated ego, soul's diffusive movement outward meets soul's infusive movement from outer to inner as the two merge in an imaginal Cosmos, whose Centre, as all shamans know (through 'gnosis'), is everywhere.

    Schizophrenia as Initiation

    Many diagnosed schizophrenics will deny that their condition is primarily an illness:
    "It certainly feels more like an initiation of some kind," expands Chris. "For all the pain it has brought me, I wouldn't be without it, as it has made me so much more aware of a lot of things."
    Another example: Sadie had graduated from university not long before succumbing to schizophrenia at the age of 24.
    "I could say that it happened overnight, that I suddenly found myself in an intensely strange, terrifying yet beautiful place; but it would also be true that it had been coming to a head for some time. I'd had a strange sense that it was going to happen for many years, and had read fairly widely on the subject, but as it turned out, nothing really could have prepared me for it when it did finally come. I was more lost than I ever would have thought it possible to be."
    Friends and family were disturbed by the change that came over her, and within two months she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital.
    "The last thing I wanted was to go there. The way I felt at the time, I felt it would destroy me to go in there, but I was powerless to resist. I'd lost the ability to express myself - words held too much meaning. I would listen to something as banal as a football match commentary, and to me it would be the story of the last battle of the gods. Everything was so vast, so deeply mythological. I'd see the arcane history of the world in everything, every little detail would hold another clue, and I was trying to hold all this information together, launched upon a mythic quest that terrified and excited me in ways far more real, far more vivid, than my life ever had up to that point."
    Sadie later added:
    "Yet as a direct result of my experiences, I've been able to pull my friends out of psychoses which otherwise would have held them fast. Shamans are able to make it through the confusion because there are older shamans who have been there themselves, and can help them. I have a few friends who are diagnosed with schizophrenia, and we all feel this way."
    But if there are medications that will help the schizophrenic to function again, why don't they want to take them? Why are they so distrustful of the medical profession?
    "To be honest, I don't think your average psychiatrist really has a clue," said Chris, a little guardedly. "My psychiatrist has never even read any Jung. It's impossible for me to respect that, and dangerous for me to allow him to administer drugs that affect my mind. It is, after all, my mind. My medication makes me very lethargic, but I'm bullied into taking it, and my appeals to reduce it, gradually, aren't considered. People are horrified at the thought of Medieval tooth-pullers, and I think as we learn more about the mind, in years to come people will feel much the same way about our psychiatrists. My doctor kept trying to make me believe that the things I was seeing and hearing and feeling were delusions, whatever he thought he meant by that. But what I was experiencing was real, in the truest sense of the word. The experiences of schizophrenics are incredibly similar to each other."
    Sadie's thoughts ran along similar lines.
    "The doctors are just on the look-out for symptoms that match what it says in their medication manuals . . . My medication made me sluggish. I wasn't myself. I was existing, but not living . . . . If I complained, or questioned the way I was being treated, my behaviour became, in the eyes of the doctors and nurses, symptomatic of the schizophrenia. There was no way I could win. I made a decision to gradually phase myself off the medication that had been forced on me, although I was very afraid to do so."
    The only benefit that Sadie felt she had received from her medication was that it slowed her mind down and enabled her to block out the fear and paranoia that haunted her twenty-four hours a day. So what happened when she stopped taking it?
    "Well, I started to feel so much more alive. I found new enthusiasm and creative ability. But then one night it happened again. I was back in the nightmare world. To try and describe it, it was as if I'd been alive hundreds of years ago, and the world felt very familiar in some ways, but there was a lot that had changed, that I had to learn to adapt to. It was very animistic - I felt as if a spirit pervaded everything, that I was sensitive to, to the degree that I would identify totally with whatever was in my mind, what I was looking at or thinking about, at the time. I was determined to evade incarceration this time, and moved up to Scotland to work in the forests. It was very difficult. I couldn't relate well to people - they seemed so chaotic, so cut off. I had been used to defining myself by the way I interacted with other people, so it was very hard for me to be a loner. But a change of scene, where no-one expected anything of me, was so refreshing, so strengthening. It's very difficult, living in these over-crowded islands, to truly be alone, but I do think that it is vital to be able to do this, in a positive way, to understand the changes that are happening, and to find a degree of perspective.
    "I began to look very closely, as objectively as I was able to, at the way my mind worked, almost as if it were a machine I was working on, and managed to kind of re-wire it to perform the tasks I needed it to do. I had stopped feeling like a victim, and regained a little control."
    The method seems to have worked for Sadie, who hasn't been readmitted to hospital and who went on to study full-time. She only wishes that the medical profession were brave enough to try different kinds of help for schizophrenics. She adds:
    "I still see and hear things though. In fact, it is largely through characters I have met in my dreams that I have been able to work out how to help myself. In other words, by immersion in what I have been experiencing, rather than trying to block it out."
    Drum healing is also helpful:
    "I think it's the beat, the rhythm", adds Chris. It does wonderful things to your mind. Since I started dancing in this way, I haven't felt the need to take any kind of drug. I'd love to get a group of people together to visit schizophrenics and all sit round in a circle somewhere playing hand drums, bongos and whatever. Methods like this have been used for thousands of years to pull people out of psychoses. I think we need to try more ways of helping these people to get their lives back. I know it can work - I have my life back, better than ever. And it's all the more precious for having gone away."
    Self Retrieval vs Soul Retrieval

    Jung once remarked that his work would be continued "by those who suffer", and he was undoubtedly including in that phrase all who have the courage to confront - with the peculiar aloneness and risk that's unavoidable in such work - their inner depths, soul pathology, and shadows. From the perspective of effective therapy (bearing in mind that 'therapy' means 'serving the gods'), the bottom line is that sufferers of schizophrenia as individuals have the right to choose what sort of treatment they wish to accept, but at present they're not being presented by mainstream psychiatry with the option of working through their experiences as an alternative to fearfully band-aiding the symptoms. Coming to terms with the illness takes a lot of guts - on the part of both patient and therapist - but the option exists and sufferers of schizophrenia are surely entitled to be informed that it does.
    Paraphrasing Hamlet, then, to intervene, or not to intervene, that is the quesion. During solitary Self retrieval, for instance, when a person may be recovering from grief, or from an ended relationship, or from plain old unrequited love, the energy is gradually reclaimed, in the same way as a snail's stalks, or the leaves of some touch-sensitive plants tentatively re-emerge or unfold after they've been touched. Similarly, the soul's energy doesn't need to be yanked back, or forcefully torn away from its attachment. It needs gentleness and slow movement, not sudden jolting or other forms of hasty retrieval.
    Through my own experiences of grief, loss and wounding, and though being privileged to share the painful experiences of others, I have learned that the soul lets go when in the kairos of its own time-frame it is ready to. It undergoes a gradual transition from acknowledging the soul-bond, to relinquishing dependency and belongingness, to acknowledging the reality of separation.
    ~many hands make the work light~

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    Old Soul Celticknot's Avatar
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    I eviscerated , shredded and shamed this article into submission on another site.

    A brief recap.

    Disease feeding and ego comfort. Shamanic illnesses are no different or 'special' than the illnesses of 'normal' people. Disease all comes from the same source, shamanic or not. Shamanic healers don't piece by piece heal, they heal as a whole.

    Who ever wrote this article has to be forgiven for...wll never mind.. I'm just feeding the disease if I say it..

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    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    this article is totally new to me, but the ideas presented are not.
    i'm still reading it, i havent totally finished with it yet, but so far i agree with a lot of what the writing is saying.
    i would not say these things the same way tho obviously...and didnt neccessarily get the same thing from the writing, tho i guess i can see what you mean.


    it surprises me your ideas, ck. but regardless of agreeing i'd be curious if you would expand your pov.

    i think that anyone on a spiritual journey will at some point go thru some pretty gnarly manifestation/ confusion states. for them perhaps the unfolding is different, rather than shamanic in nature perhaps it is more inclined to the mystic, or of seeing angels and saints...based on their own inner mythology....or some other kind of reference. regardless of whether they were to see it, or anything about themselves , as being shamanic, it would be a very similar process.
    ?
    perhaps?
    ~many hands make the work light~

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    Quote Originally Posted by leila View Post
    this article is totally new to me, but the ideas presented are not.
    i'm still reading it, i havent totally finished with it yet, but so far i agree with a lot of what the writing is saying.
    i would not say these things the same way tho obviously...and didnt neccessarily get the same thing from the writing, tho i guess i can see what you mean.


    it surprises me your ideas, ck. but regardless of agreeing i'd be curious if you would expand your pov.

    i think that anyone on a spiritual journey will at some point go thru some pretty gnarly manifestation/ confusion states. for them perhaps the unfolding is different, rather than shamanic in nature perhaps it is more inclined to the mystic, or of seeing angels and saints...based on their own inner mythology....or some other kind of reference. regardless of whether they were to see it, or anything about themselves , as being shamanic, it would be a very similar process.
    ?
    perhaps?
    I have read similar articles to be true a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if it's a false label to consider shamans as schizo thus I would love too to listen to Celtiknot's opinion. Thank you leila for posting this, it's very informative.
    "Some Warriors look fierce but are mild. Some seem timid but are vicious. Look beyond appearances - position yourself for the advantage. - Deng Ming-Dao


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    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    i do not consider shamans to be schizo.
    however there is a period of time where they must move thru some schizo states, and a lot of confusion and strange experiences.

    i do however think many people who are labelled schizophrenic, or even other milder form of mental illness, are "shamans" or , i should say shaman like.

    however the difference is in how and if they are able to ground out the experiences, integrate their experiences, and come thru this process.

    and if one doesnt? or doesnt have any references culturally, or assistance to ground and stabilize these experiences? then the person may not become a shaman, or shaman like, a healer, but rather can be lost to confusion for good.

    however i believe most mental illness is more a response to the insane world we live in, and is related to me to a kind of spiritual sickness. progressing on a spiritual path may help or hinder this process, depending. for some of the spiritual info, and assistance out there, especially as of late, is going to lead the person more into confusion. however some of the information may help someone, as i feel this general line of thinking about it, as a spiritual breakdown/breakthru is helpful.

    my opinions of course, some ideas for exploring.
    ~many hands make the work light~

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    Old Soul Celticknot's Avatar
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    I'ts hard to explain because shamanic healing isn't a method or practice its a mindset, a complete way of living in the mind. IThe best you can do with this is just TRY KNOWING it before it becomes real to you which is hard. But I found if I explained it to your common garden variety of spritual healer they wouldn't get it. Then they'd come back a day later and admit they were sorta getting it, and then suddenly they weren't consciously grasping the concept but feeling it. it takes decades to live in this and move in it freely but I find that if I take the time to explain it people,they not only shift the way they heal but the way they live even spiritually. Its not because shamanic healing is a secret but many people can't grasp the concept of unconscious healing.

    There are several levels of healing.

    Say there are levels 1 thru 7. There may be levels above that which I may not be aware of but it suffices to say the article is about level 4 or 5 in terms of healing. Its dimensions actually but I'll say levels for the sake of comparison

    The article bridges conscious and subconscious healing: "There's a disease, we look for the root in the emotions and figure out what abuse, trauma ect caused the disease years before it manifested in the physical body." Pretty standard. Most spiritual healers operate right around here or just below and above this. . Now right here is where we seem to be working with mind body and spirit and tearing the ego apart. So in this level of healing given the understanding of the client, I will say. "Okay you have a manifestation of a disease but its really in your emotional body." Most people can accept that.

    Go up a level or two. Shamanic healing addresses an unconscious level of healing. These are things we keep to ourselves and don't tell the client (or anyone else really) because most of them don't understand, and a lot of spirit seekers are just arriving in this point of consciousness or rather unconsciousness now. Unconscious healing is where you are walking between worlds. The first world is This World our common perception that is conscious, and then the under belly the subconscious. There's all sorts of worlds there to walk in but we find they are mind projections of people, the collective mind projection of humanity.

    In unconscious healing its all spirit , spirit world no body, nothing solid, just spirit Some people refer to this as Source healing and that would be correct too since Spirit is directly connected to Source. The spirit acknowledges that the Conscious and the Subconcious world that fringes it is illusion. Conscious world is what you and I are looking at right now, experiencing here in this post. Common everyday perceptional reality. . Anything in that (this) world is illusion , self created, and what we term magick in nature. Even a portion of the subconcious world what SOME percieve as the world of spirit is illusion. That's why I'm always barking at people to be careful of what you are speaking to 'out there' It's illusion so we manipulate it easily. If we created it we can uncreate it. You arrive here with a full understanding and you have a person who is a top knotch magician because they have a full understanding of the illusion world and its like working with play dough.

    Going up a level. Unconscious healing. The unconscious is where spirit really lives at. What is between unconcious, subconcious and unconcious may very well be the veil that we talk about between worlds but that may be just my opinion.

    At this level we do not even suggest a disease exists, that is just feeding the illusion of disease, we don't even really acknowledge the body, and even the wound, the emo trauma is illusionary EVERYTHING IS ILLUSIONARY. There's just pure spirit and spirit is always whole and perfect. So when I go to a person's spirit self, the SPIRIT tells me, there is no disease, there is no body, there's just spirit and spirit is always whole. Like everything else the disease and even the body is an illusion, a mind projection. So we work on the mind projection which is why I say disease all comes from the same place, from the mind projection. So this is why we don't feed the disease at this level, if Spirit were to deem the disease real by acknowledging it, it WOULD become real. And we'd never be able to cure no matter what we did.

    Not sure if that is a sufficient explanation or not.

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    ah ok, i think i see what youre saying, very good point.
    several very good points actually, thank you for writing that out.

    i've been working on things like that, tho i didnt neccessarily think it out the way you've written it. it s more like... if i start thinking- i wish i was more compassionate, because i had just done or said something that didnt seem compassionate. then i will answer back to myself- i am compassion.
    and its like, o yeah i forgot, i AM compassion.
    and anyway we are working from this moment forward, so the past, in which i was not compassionate, no longer exists...would be a follow up...kind of corrective thought pattern.

    yes?
    similar? maybe not quite the same... it applies to other situations, areas of life as well...but thats a basic example.
    however talking yourself out of neurosis, or worse, full on psychosis, would probably take quite a bit more persistance with this kind of thinking, maybe not as easy.
    or ??? maybe it is easy, could be that easy, if we let it be.

    and now re reading this article i can see how this could encourage ...certain trains of thought, which could be futher damaging... altho for another person to read it i feel it would be quite helpful.
    if some one were being intiated, or going thru a process to become a healer, this kind of info would be helpful, especially if they were outside of a context for that to occur, say trying to live a normalish life somewhere while undergoing these kind s of experiences. and for them, and also those who have a *break* from reality, i will call it, a level 4 or 5 healing may make a huge difference. between having some bizarre experiences and going about their life without meds, maybe eventually becoming a healer themselves...or being locked away, told theres no cure for what they "have" and medicated and even more messed up. perhaps it may later lead them to a level..."6 or 7 level" healing.

    while it does take decades, as you write, to become a good healer, or shaman, the basic realization of unity, the animist revelation, can be grasped instantly.

    likes this quote about jung, i never knew all this about him.
    that he feels at times 'spread out over the landscape and inside things and am myself living in every tree, in the plashing of the waves, in the clouds and animals that come and go, in the procession of the seasons . . .' Further on, Jung ends his autobiography with the confession that 'plants, animals, clouds, day and night' fill him such that he feels a 'kinship with all things.'(5)
    If, then, individuation does not shut one out from the world but rather gathers the world to itself, so soul-making gathers the individual to all-pervasive soul, anima mundi expanding into the even more inclusive sphere of unus mundus. Here, through the explosion of the isolated ego, soul's diffusive movement outward meets soul's infusive movement from outer to inner as the two merge in an imaginal Cosmos, whose Centre, as all shamans know (through 'gnosis'), is everywhere.
    i feel rather than it being time consuming and difficult to obtain this kind of experience, it is quite difficult and time consuming, as well as dangerous, to hold back this realization, superimposing upon, forcing or rejecting, and struggling to maintain falseness. so the holding onto the difficulties, the psychosis, the fears, the judgements and *mind projections* is actually considerable amount of effort....and letting go of all that is much easier. i think the animist basic idea of unity = one heart, is very deeply healing.but i think that the *mindset* is the core of all of us, the default mindset, when everything else is stripped away this is what one is left with. so i think its easy, as easy as breathing.

    however thats a different thing than becoming a healer...or especially becoming a "shaman".
    i think someone who recieved a "level 5" or whatever, shallow healing, would also be able to heal others at that point, but should not be focussed on that, or intentionally trying to give others healing.
    i guess i see the article as more talking to those who are self healing, or who are being *called* to a shamanic, or shaman like healing path, and who are only hearing from people that they are "sick" and need "medicine", are "crazy" or whatever.
    a shallow healing like that is certainly better than being locked up and drugged.

    and yes i agree, common everyday reality is magic, amazing really, the manifest world and all its intricacy and beauty! from this perspective nothings unusual, or really , everything is unusual, miraculous. we are miracles of light and sound. even the simplest boring things are magical and amazing to me. how it all fits together, how it flows.
    and yes we are creating, we should take nothing for granted as being "just that way" or supposedly so messed up, or whatever else.
    so i dont so much go for "this is just the way it is" or ...well hard to explain for sure...i feel a big gap there sometimes when i even try to explain. actually such a big gap i cant even try to explain. and not to say i got it all figured out! but i see what you mean by this:

    Even a portion of the subconcious world what SOME percieve as the world of spirit is illusion.
    tho i would say it is real too, it both illusion and it is real, just as our manifest world is both real and illusion.
    tho see.... that probably doesnt make much sense...but to me it is true.
    ~many hands make the work light~

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    namaste
    this is an interesting article and take on something that more and more people, I think, are awakening to
    to go through a familial shamanic awakening is perhaps a bit different that hedge practice, but I believe the results can be the same
    often I have wondered, though, why so many see this awakening and take from it the concept that it is only a tool to be used
    I have met many who have tried to "force" a spiritual or shamanic awakening because they wish to wield the resulting "wisdom" as a tool
    while I can understand this to a point, does this not simply perpetuate ego?
    ego, being something that must be put to the side to walk within?.....
    it is just my opinion, and my way of seeing what I went through....but I do not understand this utilitarian use of the gifts of Spirit
    and no, this is not meant to infringe or call judgement into question upon anyone, truly
    My way is simply that this gift, and the things i saw during my awakening, push me in different ways..

    thank you for sharing this

    adumbrae et lumis otium
    नमस्ते
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
    In lak’ech Ala Kin’

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    subscribing and thanks all..xxoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmazonPrincess View Post
    I have read similar articles to be true a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if it's a false label to consider shamans as schizo thus I would love too to listen to Celtiknot's opinion. Thank you leila for posting this, it's very informative.
    I can see why some people would consider a shaman a schizo. It's really about conscious control though. For every world there is a self that you use to navigate that world that's a lot of selves. There's different dimensions to even ordinary people. Very basically when I come inot this forum I put a leash on my ego self and depending what i'm doing or saying, I'm talking with ego self tempered with a higher self. If I came in here and talked with spirit or higher self who would understand me. Not someone who is still entrenched in ego. Meaning I can move up and down between levels of self. But I KNOW I'm doing it , its consciously controlled. I know I'm in the illusion world speakig to the illusion people who appear to be real. They seem real, I can intereact as if they are real but I KNOW they aren't. What if I came in here as my wolf self, how many people would understand me. A few. Sometimes my conscious containment slips and I go to my wolf self. Call it shape shifting. What if without intention started sliding between selves. Whould I appear to be a schizo. One minute I'm some old herb lady and the next a horse? Lol.

    For every level I move into someone here could understand me but this is a community and we all have egos to a certain extent so most times I speak from that tempered ego self. Like I'm addressing everyone from a common ground, speaking the common language. If I came in to neigh and snort I'm sure the conversation would fizzle fast. You do become very quicly entrenched in other dimensions of self, and tend towards that behavior and thought.

    There are people in here I cannot communicate with in her whatsoever because they are so entrenched in ego that even if my higher loving self addressed them the ego would be curling in a fetal position and triggering, at best they'd ingore me, couldn't comprehend me or get pissed.

    Take a schizo maybe they are moving rapidly through these dimensions of self with no control, not means of KNOWING and most of all because the ego is their primary guidance system is making all these levering up and downs through self a fearful thing instead of something that is merely a potential for human fulfillment. True shamanism takes lifetimes to develop, perhaps in another three lifetimes or so today's schizo will be tommorow's shaman.

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    We, as humans, are waking up on a large scale

    When you look through a high powered electroscanning microscope - guess what? The whole physical world disappears, its all just fucking electrons moving about - just like the virtual realities!"
    Dan Mapes

    Dan Mapes describes himself as an inventor, software developer, and interactive technology artist and his San Francisco based company SynergyLabs is pioneering 3D design on the Net. Dan helped to produce the first Internet Summit in Cyberspace for the United Nations and his clients have ranged from corporate heavyweights such as the European Community Commission and Pacific Bell to musicians like Peter Gabriel and Ornette Coleman, whose world tours included Dan's interactive audience - participation multimedia productions. His film and videogame work includes special effects for the 1995 movies Virtuosity and Hideaway and the Playstation game TEKKEN 2.

    His e-mail signature message includes quotes from John Cage: "Everyone is in the best seat" and Wilma Mankiller (Principal Chief - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma): "We must trust our own thinking. Trust where we're going and get the job done."

    The New Vision

    Dan Mapes Everybody has a feeling that there's some kind of expert out there, you can't really speak what you really feel because there's a right way to do things but actually the only right way to do things is to do what you know intrinsically to be true. And this is why we say that it's the child who brings the new vision because they see that the Emperor has no clothes. Everybody else is going "Oh the Emperors clothes are so beautiful" because clearly the Emperor must be wearing wonderful clothes because everybody else is saying "Oh gee these are such wonderful clothes" and the child is saying "HE'S NOT WEARING ANY CLOTHES!" Everybody is afraid to speak their truth. You have to trust in your own thinking and go forward on that basis. That's how you find other people of like mind.

    Virtual Reality Check

    Virtual Reality, I think, is right now the crowning gift of science. It gives us a practical tool for making choices, it gives us a new delightful entertainment art form, it gives us a strange mirror to look into and say "Gee, if we can build virtual realities that look this good, maybe normal reality is in fact a virtual reality!" When you look through a high powered electroscanning microscope - guess what? The whole physical world disappears, its all just fucking electrons moving about - just like the virtual realities! Oh my God! (laughter). So it says maybe there's a metaphysical feed-back loop in physics. So out of the peak of our science comes a metaphysical mirror and that is truly a gift.

    We don't have to have this dialogue any more between religion and science, this split. In fact, back in the rain forest we never had that split. We're about, I think, to enter a new age, where we don't have it again. Now I want to make it clear that I don't think it was a mistake to have that split. I think it was a good thing to have that split. It created a very interesting cosmological dialogue. But now, just as Picasso finished his blue period, we are finishing that dichotomy and are wanting to experience a moment of real bliss where we re-integrate the whole again and we dance the dance of scientific religion or religious science or metaphysical physics, I don't know, you can give it any name you like.

    Right now we've been exploring things together as beings, conscious beings, we've been putting together consciousness in a way that we call reality. And this is a piece of art - exactly like Picasso's blue period is. It has with it motorcars and airplanes and science and religion and sex and babies and the whole deal! By the way its completely arbitrary, just like the blue period was and we're about to take the whole damned thing apart, right now, in front of your very eyes, probably over the next thirty to fifty years and do something completely new. It's an extraordinary moment because generally when you're in the middle of the era the hypnosis is extremely strong but when you're nearing the end of an era everybody starts to wake up and say "Oh this was in fact an era, it was a period of exploring consciousness in this particular way". And we're just about done, so guess what we're going to do at the end of the era, we're going to have a big party!

    Clearly the whole exponential growth of cyberculture is happening in this area and its going somewhere, one could call it a sub-cultural revolution. To me a lot of people who have passed through the psychedelic experience of the 60's and the Shamanic experience or whatever which opened their mind up to a new dimension, now have got their hands on technology and are starting to do something similar but in a different way.

    Dan Mapes That's building cyberspace, which is another level of consciousness. But if you take a look at Beethoven's symphonies, every time that Beethoven is near the end of a movement, in a symphony, he begins introducing new themes that he'll explore in the next movement. So while he's summing up, and tidying up and closing off this movement, he's introducing new chord structures, new melodic lines, which then he'll explore in the next movement.

    So likewise, human societies that are taking part in these large movements which we might call an age or an epoch, as that epoch is near its' end they begin introducing elements that they'll explore in the next epoch. So what do we see as we enter the last hundred years of this thousand year cycle? Well, we see explorations of atomic physics, we see explorations of space travel, we see exploration of genetic medicine, we see explorations of new kinds of psychedelic consciousness. We see new explorations of new kinds of virtual realities. We call them virtual 'realities', new realities.

    These are all baby, seed elements that are just being touched on and felt but which will flower, very fully in the next cycle. So it lets us see into the future, very clearly. What are the issues? Space travel. What are the issues? Weightless environments. What are the issues? Genetic. Complete play with the DNA, we can play with DNA as we can play a musical instrument, recreate ourselves in any form we might want to.

    Isn't there a danger we're becoming Gods?

    We are becoming Gods. This happens because we're actually creating a new level of consciousness. So the characters that are responsible for bringing this new consciousness to life realise their godliness - they were Gods all along, of course, because we are all from divine and we return to divine, well guess what that makes us? Divine! But when you actually are making a new reality like a virtual reality or creating a new universe, or whatever, its so obvious, even in the hypnotic state, that this is a godly act, that people get a sense of "Oh my goodness." By doing this we are becoming divine. Well the characters that we are bringing to life in the virtual worlds - the artificially intelligent life forms that we're bringing to life - they don't think of themselves as godly, they'll look to us as Gods the way we look to the beings that brought us to life. And this is the 'Great Chain of Being' and its a wonderful, beautiful tradition.

    We, as humans, are waking up on a large scale, for the first time in history. Individual humans have always been aware of this and we've always called them enlightened sages, or saints or things like this. But now as we end the age, a large number of people are coming to the insights that only great mystics and sages - only one in a hundred years might have had - now thousands of people are touching it and starting to wake up to it.

    Technoshamanism

    I think Technoshamenism is a really delightful term because it grounds technology into the most delightful practise that any human being can take part in, which is Shamanism. We have still alive with us on the planet traditional Shamans living in the rain forest in the Amazon - they're absolutely wonderful creatures and maybe the most valuable resource alive on the planet today. More valuable, maybe than the plants in the rain forest but they're just living embodiments of pure consciousness flow. And if you get near them and you take part of their assembling you will experience extraordinary experiences which turn out to be a natural state of consciousness for every living human being but very few ever get to touch it as Shamans are still wild, rare, strange creatures at this moment in time.

    Technoshamenism says we honour that heritage. We come from that. That is the most valuable way of experiencing reality. And we are going to dance the Shamenistic dance in a new moment in time, in a new place with new toys. But it's actually got its roots in the Shamans original dance. Now we're just going to take these new toys that we've created, these new inventions that we made, under hypnosis, cameras, guns, airplanes, computers and we're going to grind them up with our new Shaman's pestle into an interesting brew and we're going to drink that brew and we're going to dance the technology dance - with the full Shamanic mind.

    So Technoshamenism to me means, here we are in this moment in time and Shamans who are alive today and being born at this time are forced to be Technoshamens just because technology to us is what the rain forest was to a Shaman in that time. These are the plants, these are the leaves, these are the jungle animals but now they're missiles and computers, now they're virtual reality worlds, now they're psychedelic music videos, now they're all-night DJ events with tremendous pumping sound. This is the jungle we're living in right now, and a Shamen uses the tools and the parts of its environment to share that kind of insight with his fellow beings.

    Sufi Insights

    There was a wonderful philosopher around the 12th Century, his name was Ibn Al 'Arabi and he wrote a fantastic treatise called the Fûsus al-Hikam. In it he talks about the play of the dream really being an elucidation of the range of possible states that can take place. And consciousness, through its divine play, through the creative expression of bringing people and worlds and events to life, is actually expressing itself. And through that process, coming to appreciate itself and know itself.

    So these were actually in Ibn Al 'Arabi's thinking, these were something he called the "quiddities" or the essential elements of existence, that can only be discovered through the play of life. Otherwise they're in potential, they're within consciousness. So the divine cell gives itself up to the play of existence in whatever form it takes - because, why? Because it is self-discovery. And so therefore, anything that happens is fine. It can be UFO's, it can be world wars, it can be two planets colliding. All of these are expressing states of consciousness that are possible.
    Interview by British film maker Tim Coleman:
    e-mail TCole7777@aol.com

    http://www.dprogram.com/dan_mapesp3.html

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    shaman percive physical reality as being a illusion go tel you psychaytrist he live in a illusion sure il lock you in a gage and feed you with pill

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    Old Soul Celticknot's Avatar
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    Any one ever been locked in a gage?

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    Old Soul Celticknot's Avatar
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    Humans are consciously waking up to this I see more and more that when I set out a difficult concept whether its my opinion or based on something else people are grasping it, have grasped in a way they didn't even ten years before. Okay so once I was perceived as a mental case, but not so much anymore, so its a matter of perception too. If I'm a mental case and you understand what I'm talking about so are you....lol.... Once people grasp the concept that conscious, unconscious and subconscious are dimensions of our Selves it becomes easier to see that we could have a lot of more selves on top of that. If our consciousness split ONCE when we orginally split from Source as they auld fables go, couldn't that mean we could constantly keep splitting consciousness. And that it only becomes a detriment when we don't know it attempt to control it? Or are aware of it. What about bi polarity? A shift in consciouness where someone teeter totters back and forth between Selves.

    I like the techno shaminism the way its been expressed. I met a self proclaimed techno shaman in Texas and he was a right girt asshole, so the whole concept was a bit of a turnoff up to this point. I think the article posted makes it a lot more expressive and gets to the heart of the matter. . Maybe not my cup of tea but essentially the same thing. Techno music and old fashioned drumming produces mostly the same effect after a while drawing forward the primal self.

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    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    that was a great article, thanks.

    well i dont consider shamans, or other kind of of spiritual healers, schizo.
    but ...i have strange ideas about such things, i really dont so much believe in schizophrenia, or most of labels and diagnoses of modern psychotherapy.

    i see that we are humans having human experiences, and that there are different states of being ness, some of which are quite gnarly, very unpleasant. and as you mentioned, ck, fear based and therefore so colored, also disconnected and ungrounded. this can snowball.

    i suppose rather than talking about controlling it, i would talk about being in alignment with it...or being able to integrate these various *levels* or *selves*
    as a go between.
    and also being able to accept the widening view of what is possible, and what is happening, accurately.
    ?
    or perhaps what i want to say is that rather than control it, they can utilize it, the other states of mind, and various other workings from there are possible, like healing, or communication.

    so people in a so called schizo state, are failing to be able to integrate, or go between. or, mostly what i think, is that the fear overtakes the person. people are for some reason afraid of the mindset, of the losing control, of the posession by "spirit" ,afraid to surrender, perhaps...or somehow are afraid to let go into such an altered state. well no perhaps it is more that the mind then has a story, and there is often past trauma that repeats, or is attached or blocking the person in ways. when these things purge, potential for healing is there...altho it may seem like a psychotic break, or a schizo mind state to another person not understanding that. because when it urges to the surface it becomes very noticable and the person will seem to be fully in the throes of madness, but really they are being presented an opportunity to heal

    ? ah some thoughts for exploring.

    in part i think because of the labels, categatorizations of different mind states, *illnesses*, fear of being crazy ....people are afraid to have these kinds of mystical experiences, to go into deep introspection, to explore altered states of consciousness. that to me is very unfortunate, for the medicine of their sickness is found within.
    so it seems most of the less plesant effects , even temporary schizo state...are rather from the fearing , and the resisting, trying to block out the experiences
    ?
    also - purging - rather then the actual experience.

    at this point tho i feel every person alive now is being called to assist in the healing work. we do not have to be special shamans to do so, and even so...many modern "shamans" (not always called as such, or even know that they are as such, but they do the work) are living in urban environments, are not native american, or of any particular country. they may even be working in totally different cultures and spiritual paths, or adopting all of them.

    but they are doing the work for the global community, and as such are also "shamans" or shaman like. they, wouldnt really be properly called "shamans" tho...because they do not live within the culture where the "shaman" role was developed and arose from, as in the first nations people. however without the label, without the calling themselves anything- these people would be legitimately doing the work of a shaman, in the spirit, inside themselves, in connection with the earth. sometimes that work is as the simple tending of the garden, or for some it is in pursuing environmentalism, or permaculture.
    ? yes ? to me thats what i see.
    which i suppose again brings us to "techno shamanism" , or brings me to *neo animism*

    even tho it may be the core mindset... the naked mind of a human being a human....people create much tension around resisting and fearing altered states.
    and especially can fear where the ego is temp or long term, abated, or somehow put aside.

    i wish this writer of the OP had been speaking of all mystical and estatic "altered" states, healing crisis, and other related issues, instead of just "shamanism". she does speak of animism some, but doesnt include other versions/ or other religions into the article which i think would have made the article better.


    re: techno shamanism

    i consider myself to be a neo animist. or simpler an animist.
    there are a lot of neo shamanism, eco paganism, animist groups which are emerging and working with new expressions of old ways.
    to say i am an animist is somewhat related to *shamanism*, but animism is the umbrella term which also includes paganism and doesnt specifically refer to only the first nation people.
    heres an old thread i posted about this, with a lot of writings about animism.
    http://indigosociety.com/showthread.php?14386-animism


    i like to read about this... i've book marked a lot of articles about neo animism , aka techno shamanry , aka neo paganism aka a lot of other names .
    maybe i will dig some more up, later, should be off line here and doing some works.

    i have several friends who are involved in doing "techno shamanism" projects- or rather animism blogs, websites, and forum chats.

    some links to stuff. mostly this my friends blog, he is a brilliant writer....so i enjoy catching up with his blogs.
    he would probably enjoy some readers there. a lot of what i was reading there, and elsewhere on tribe.net, this morning was related to this conversation we are having...ah of course synchronicity.

    also i've been reading something else, it s very long...i will find some good paragraphs and post a little bit about in another post.

    http://www.bioregionalanimism.com/2008_01_20_archive.html


    backyard shamanry


    medicine societies
    ~many hands make the work light~

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    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    from: http://dreamflesh.com/essays/paganism/

    What’s left of nature is often conceptually boxed up, and has all its wonders theorized away by overly self-conscious modern thought, which stresses the illusory quality of ideas about ‘naturalness’. It’s important to realize how ‘nature’ is usually filtered through human mental constructs and models. But this awareness of our distance from nature is not a revelation granted to us by recent theorists. For me it is the basis of paganism—along with the realization that we are part of nature at the same time.

    Look at the old Germanic word Hagzissa, meaning ‘hedge sitter’. It is the root of the modern German Hexe (witch), and refers to those people in a community who straddled the gap—symbolized by the hedge—between the world of the human community and the world of non-human nature. If shamanic cultures really saw themselves as living ‘at one’ with nature, as many Western pagans see them, shamans would have no need to venture out into the wilderness alone, for what Native Americans call ‘vision quests’. This archetypal adventure away from the community is an acknowledgement that the community is, to some extent, cut off from nature by its consensus illusions. In the woods, mountains or deserts, the isolated shaman is progressively stripped of his or her cultivated perceptions and ego-barriers, and thus becomes open to contact with the spirits of nature. In pagan northern Europe, this practice was known as ‘utiseta’ (‘to sit outside’, the whole night). It is this experience that still retains the potential to burst the shell of separation from nature that modern thought often still perpetuates, with its sophistic and self-referential theories.

    Of course, the shaman returns to the community after immersion in wilderness, to share the wisdom and power gained there—an activity that differentiates shamans from free-range nutters who wander off and live in their own world (not such a bad idea, but it ain’t shamanism). It is here, in the return to society, that culturally conditioned ideas of nature influence the nature-contact. I would say that the efficiency and flexibility with which this influence is mediated defines the health of a community.

    There is the argument that any ‘contact with nature’, however removed from human communities, is inevitably governed by cultural constructs. Nature spirits and primeval elemental forces are masked by idiosyncratic ideas about them, however much conceptual baggage is ripped away. This can be seen in the phenomenon known as UFOs (remember what that first letter stands for!). Those from a technocratic space-age culture can see them as alien craft from other galaxies; those with an open scientific mind can see them as possibly sentient energy-forms created by tectonic stress along faultlines in the Earth’s crust (‘earth lights’); rural folk can see them as faeries or ‘the little people’; tribal cultures can see them as ancestor spirits or the disembodied souls of shamans. In terms of the intellect, and post-experience rationalization (the detritus of experience), cultural conditioning is inescapable. But in terms of experience itself, it is possible that while contact with this type of phenomenon is happening (as with intense psychedelic states) conditioning is suspended to reveal raw, concept-free communion with nature that is unmediated—at least to the extent that being human allows. And we have yet to discover the limits of being human.

    The use of the word ‘shaman’ has slipped in here almost unnoticed, and it deserves special attention. It comes from the word saman, used by the Tungus people of Siberia, meaning "one who is excited, moved, raised." In anthropology it came to replace terms such as ‘medicine man’, ‘witch doctor’, ‘sorcerer’, or ‘seer’, used to describe healers or spiritual specialists in various cultures. Mircea Éliade famously defined shamanism as "techniques of ecstasy", emphasizing its lack of religious dogma, and its focus on methods of entering altered states of consciousness on behalf of the community.

    Nowadays the term has passed into popular use, and academics often descend into spasms of despair and indignation at how casually it’s bandied about. It’s suffered most in the hands of New Agers, who use the word to conjure up a feeling of ‘authenticity’ (which always rakes in more money), and debase it by glossing over some of the less palatable and marketable aspects of shamanism in tribal cultures (like sorcery, tortuous initiation rituals, and a deep concern with the experience of death and dissolution).

    Technically, ‘shamanism’ should be understood to refer to a traditional practice whereby a particular individual enters extreme states of consciousness, communicates with and masters particular spirits, and utilizes these relationships for the benefit of the community—usually to heal. (Often shamanic activity isn’t really individualistic—see ‘The San & The Eland‘ in these pages.) But despite the New Age’s rose-tinted shades, I still think the words ‘shamanism’ or ‘shamanic’ can be used intelligently with a broader view than that of the academic—to refer to a range of interactions with otherworlds and the spirits that dwell there, and to mythological motifs with obvious, if indirect roots in these experiences.

    And however you define it, I think shamanism is one of the most fundamental phenomena behind ‘paganism’. I’ve no grand theory about this, but my own experience and research has led me to believe that the basic motifs and perceptions found throughout shamanic cultures—soul-travel, the many-levelled cosmos, an animistic worldview, death/rebirth, shape-shifting—form a good, basic map of possibilities for human interaction with the more esoteric aspects of the biosphere and the body itself. But that’s just my view.

    The archetypal death and resurrection experienced by the tribal shaman can’t be directly assimilated into our culture. Modern people who, spontaneously or otherwise, undergo a similar experience, have no fixed, culturally-sanctioned net of belief to be caught by. None of us can ‘become a shaman’, because a shaman is universally accepted by his or her culture as a uniquely gifted and magickally potent individual. Try going around today believing this about yourself and see where it gets you!
    As our culture has fragmented, so have our identities. More than ever before, paganism and magick today involve an acceptance of different self-images, and a willingness to allow these to shift, dissolve and reform as our personal circumstances move on.

    The modern West is witness to the first humans to become pagan, rather than to be born into a pagan culture. In an age dominated by consumerism and the image-obsession fostered by advertising and the mass media, consciously ‘becoming’ anything often involves more concern with the image that this new identity projects to others than with what it means in terms of experience and genuine mutation. Paganism is particularly prone to this, because it supplies such a vast wealth of images and visual styles, as well as conceptual identity-supports, that can be picked up and recycled. I don’t think anyone’s immune from some form of image-obsession, so it’s a bloody good idea to be aware of it. And to surrender the whole lot on a regular basis through whatever form of ego-shattering and rebuilding you have access to.

    This, like all sound paganism, requires the exploration of non-ordinary states of consciousness. Altered states, drug-induced or otherwise, are simply a human birth-right; in some ways they are the essence of being human. Some anti-hedonists see the revival of experimentation with altered states in the West as a "phase", part of some pre-millennial decadence. Non-ordinary states of consciousness are not a phase. If there is a "phase" involved, it is the period we are about to emerge from, a period where ecstatic consciousness is demonized and the illusion of ‘ordinary consciousness’ holds sway. Altered states have never left us and never will. Cultures like our own that suppress them by restricting access to them—through drug prohibition, sexual repression, persecution of ecstatic religions, clamping down on uninhibited communal revelry—find them popping up in nasty ways, like mental illness or mass hysteria. It is in deeper states of consciousness like trances, dreams and trips that we brush against the roots of ‘normal’ consciousness. We travel in realms that spatially and visually represent the structures underpinning the little worlds we call ‘reality’. Paganism, for me, with its multi-faceted, interconnected and non-linear apprehension of ourselves and the world, is rooted in these realms. But then again, so is everything else. I suppose paganism is distinguished by the feeling that these otherworlds are not absolutely separate from the flesh, juice, air, fire and earth that make up this world. They are related, and influence each other through a process that we can, if we want to, take part in.

    The heavy focus on natural landscapes and archaic monuments is a reflection of my current obsessions. It’s a mistake, though, to think that paganism today has to be rooted in some ‘unbroken’ lineage of paganism from the past, especially as we’re just guessing about, and creating the past most of the time. Interpretations of prehistory inevitably say more about us than our ancestors. Well, to me this is often why looking into the past is so interesting. Even if you only vaguely brush against the ‘actual’ views of prehistoric people, you usually manage to expand your own horizons and learn about yourself and your culture in the process. The ‘creative’ use of archaic spirituality has got a bit of a dodgy reputation, understandably in light of the Nazi’s appropriation of northern European paganism. That doesn’t mean there can’t be other interpretations that are more intelligent, more concerned with human freedom, and less self-critical and pompous!

    There’s plenty here to please or annoy people of most persuasions, hopefully in a creative way. Ideally, there’ll be something in here that will inspire you drop your search for the ‘true path’, and do something. Education in these realms, as in all others, comes from action, involvement, risk, failure, play and persistence. The path is not straight—it bends, curves, spirals and shifts. It is not given to you—it comes out of you. You do not work towards it—you’re already on it. And you move along it every time your senses remake the world.
    Last edited by leila; 09-13-2010 at 02:19 PM.
    ~many hands make the work light~

  24. #18
    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    well that a huge bit of writing!
    i couldnt pick out the best part well on that article...but here re reading, this is what i mostly wanted to quote from that article:

    This, like all sound paganism, requires the exploration of non-ordinary states of consciousness. Altered states, drug-induced or otherwise, are simply a human birth-right; in some ways they are the essence of being human. Some anti-hedonists see the revival of experimentation with altered states in the West as a "phase", part of some pre-millennial decadence. Non-ordinary states of consciousness are not a phase. If there is a "phase" involved, it is the period we are about to emerge from, a period where ecstatic consciousness is demonized and the illusion of ‘ordinary consciousness’ holds sway.

    Altered states have never left us and never will.
    Cultures like our own that suppress them by restricting access to them—through drug prohibition, sexual repression, persecution of ecstatic religions, clamping down on uninhibited communal revelry—find them popping up in nasty ways, like mental illness or mass hysteria. It is in deeper states of consciousness like trances, dreams and trips that we brush against the roots of ‘normal’ consciousness. We travel in realms that spatially and visually represent the structures underpinning the little worlds we call ‘reality’. Paganism, for me, with its multi-faceted, interconnected and non-linear apprehension of ourselves and the world, is rooted in these realms. But then again, so is everything else. I suppose paganism is distinguished by the feeling that these otherworlds are not absolutely separate from the flesh, juice, air, fire and earth that make up this world. They are related, and influence each other through a process that we can, if we want to, take part in.
    Last edited by leila; 09-13-2010 at 02:25 PM.
    ~many hands make the work light~

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    Global Forum Caretaker rabana's Avatar
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    i haven't read all of this but i wonder if the issue of community was addressed. don't you think a traditional shaman exists in community, has an acknowledged social contract to do their work? these days since there hardly is anything that you could really call community....

    i was dealing with a shaman gone crazy earlier in the summer. they got very nasty, very angry, totally putrid energy. in a brief bit of better mood i was told 'thank you for bearing with me on my shaman's journey.' it sure looked like mental illness to me, granted, the first time i really wanted to say that about anyone. they told me they are bi-polar, whatever that means.

    aren't shaman supposed to be working for a group? not running around self-promoting. i can't imagine any group putting up with this person, a danger to themselves and others.

    giving them the benefit of the doubt, that this really is shamanism, perhaps thats a major issue, that culture no longer supports this kind of healing. probably these articles do say that somewhere.

    i let them do their thing on me and it didn't affect me much. now they are withholding some herbs that i feel i need, saying 'you don't want to let go of your problems so whats the point?'

    just spouting off about this amazingly crazy experience.
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    Old Soul leila's Avatar
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    giving them the benefit of the doubt, that this really is shamanism, perhaps thats a major issue, that culture no longer supports this kind of healing.
    if anything i think this world needs shamanic healing more than anything. ?
    my opinion of course.

    actually i feel this world's people need the animist realization of unity, of belonging, and the lesson of sharing and community most.
    this ideally would be a shamans greatest strength, understanding that. regardless of whether they called themselves shamans or whatever other name.

    i dont know what to say about your friend, but i dont have much info. sounds like he was /is off balanced and confused about things.
    i strongly agree that shamans are in service to community. even an animist, not the same as a shaman = healer, are in service to community.
    if you realize there is unity, there is only service to the one thing, that is you, it is other too.

    serving is the only logical and reasonable thing to do at that point.
    ?yes?
    well plus gifting, and also being grateful.
    ~many hands make the work light~

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