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  1. #41
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    Yeah, my doctor didn't ask me if I wanted an episiotomy either, he basically said, "I'm going to do a cut here, because you are going to tear if I don't." Tearing didn't sound fun to me, so I told him to go a head. Within a few days, it was healed, and I was glad I didn't have a tear instead.


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    If the vaginal tears and heals.."mal -aligned" or develops scar tissue that could of been prevented ... your midwife md etc would be doing you a dis-service.

    Vaginal tears...or rectovaginal complications lead to fistulas...and yes shit coming through the vaginal wall is a life time of problems.

    Not all medical intervention is do to violate a patients rights! It is done accoridng to a life time of experience and practice that save people from hardship everyday!

    That hot 25 yearold body of the pregnant woman is at higher risk of prolapse all due to a tear that could/may of been prevented!!!!

    I did a pelvic exam of a 70 something patient and was surprised to see the cervix next to the labia!

    I also did a bimanual on a patient an was surprise that I could touch my finger tips from the rectum to the vaginal vault.

    However... if the depth of this converstaion is limited to opinions and my harsh tone (as I received an infraction from my post above)

    ..then yes....

    I am very happy I give all my female patients sound reasoning, comprehensive informational empowerment, and compassionate care that is unbiased from my personal beliefs.

    I dont have opinions about what is right when I walk into a patients room. I have guidance and partnership in establishing a care plan that they entrust we with to ethically and morally do no intentional harm!


    A circumcision is not an intentional harm ...people!
    Last edited by illuminati; 09-21-2011 at 02:44 PM.
    A Silent Master

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by illuminati View Post
    Lola you are professionally ignorant. You are illustrating that in your many years of nursing..you have seen bad practice! http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...dure/page2.htm.

    Though you, I, and luna are not giving professional advice, you are communicating professional ignorance and your logic is falliable. I posted a link illustrating the standard of practice to reduce "pain" that is not remembered nor sustained past 24 hours supported by research and biometric reading that has evidence to support it and not lolas truism.

    Additional as male who is circumsized can give personal testimony to counter you "personal" assumptions about an experience that you will never have as a female. Your speculation is full of unsophistcate assertions and notions not supported in the medical community.

    An episiotomy is not analogous to a circumcision. Additionally your use of it in this discussion illustrates a true lkack of education accumen of it.

    Episiotomy vs Circumcision

    Traditionally; episiotomys were done circumcisions are not.

    Permission; they wont ask of if it means they have to get consent from parent
    protecting the labor/child; the parent is agreeing avoid unnecessary "natural"
    vaginal mutilation
    Pain; They are suppose to numb at times... They numb with topical
    The pain resolves in 24 hours but kegal The pain stimuli is gone
    for a life time essentially after one feeding
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/episiotomy/HO00064

    I have included a link that is layman about this topic.

    You spoke about cleaniness in an above post that contradicted your notion in the previous when you stated that your son and your husband had a mom that taught then how to clean! Luna correct that illogic and now your retort is that they can do it when they are an adult. As a female you are making decisions or suggesting that the timeliness of these decisions are approiate when an indivdual has the cognitive faculties to make an informed decision adulthood. That logic is far from an educated inference. Maturity, scholarship, exposure, experience, knowledge, and understand are just a few measures to facilitate "good and sound" decisions. "The miles not the distance" http://www.aafp.org/afp/990315ap/1514.html

    The risk are the same regardless of age and the procedure does not change!
    Here is a layman website from "men" that contradict all your points! http://www.circinfo.net/.

    You are giving a personal account and you dont have the profession understanding or credentials for it to even be considered as a well informed argument. Luna graciously afforded your ignorance and opinion with the comment to each there own!

    I will do the same but so that the community can see just how one sided you passionate mind works.

    The same "parent right" that you or any body has to say "no"; is ultimately the same parental right for another to say "yes". Parents are saying yes... if it be for spiritual, ignorance/misunderstanding, or tradition.

    To suggest that parental guardianship should not over rule a babys right to make a decision is silly, uneducated, and with out any comprehensive understanding of maturity, adulthood etc. The entire American society and the world disagree with you and calling it a indigo resolve is pawning ignorance and immaturity off on a plateform of eclectic thought and existential reasoning!

    The data that you have provided to support any ascertion that circumcisions should not be done because;

    1 you are not respecting the babies right
    2 its very painful and could lead to adverse consequences
    3 its mutilation and tradition is not an excuse

    Are all premise that are not sound, not logical, and dont support your concluding "opinion(s)".

    You have to be willing not weight both sides of the argument against "evidence base", "comprehensive understanding", and reasoning above partiality.

    You are aged and have calender experience...I wont argue that! However as you articulate that we measure the wisdom or usefulness of that calender experience. You have displayed a continued static position in life and understanding. So I am not surprised of the lack in understanding as it relates to this topic from an academic and medical point of view.

    You have communicated your bias, your partiality, and an opinion. Thank you for that, but wisdom from your personal experience is questionable.

    I am glad you are not in a position that requires a provider to give accurate informational empowerment as it relates to responsible, ethical, unbiased, and comprehensive intellectual command of this procedure the benefits and adversities as it is supported by evidence base medicine in the field of medical practice.

    You would be sued and even the nursing board would sanction you as you obviously are out of your scope of practice and understanding.
    You were infracted for this post? I don't understand?

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by illuminati View Post
    If the vaginal tears and heals.."mal -aligned" or develops scar tissue that could of been prevented ... your midwife md etc would be doing you a dis-service.

    Vaginal tears...or rectovaginal complications lead to fistulas...and yes shit coming through the vaginal wall is a life time of problems.

    Not all medical intervention is do to violate a patients rights! It is done accoridng to a life time of experience and practice that save people from hardship everyday!

    That hot 25 yearold body of the pregnant woman is at higher risk of prolapse all due to a tear that could/may of been prevented!!!!

    I did a pelvic exam of a 70 something patient and was surprised to see the cervix next to the labia!
    I also did a bimanual on a patient an was surprise that I could touch my finger tips from the rectum to the vaginal vault.

    However... if the depth of this converstaion is limited to opinions and my harsh tone (as I received an infraction from my post above)

    ..then yes....

    I am very happy I give all my female patients sound reasoning, comprehensive informational empowerment, and compassionate care that is unbiased from my personal beliefs.

    I dont have opinions about what is right when I walk into a patients room. I have guidance and partnership in establishing a care plan that they entrust we with to ethically and morally do no intentional harm!


    A circumcision is not an intentional harm people!
    I've imaged my fair share of fistulas over the years, they are not a pleasant experience for the patient. And they always require surgery.

    *shivers*

    I was glad for my episiotomy. If I had labored longer, I wouldn't of needed one, but the little one was impatient.

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  7. #45
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    I understand both view points, pro circumcision and anti.

    It happened to me as a baby, and honestly I am happy about it. I have a healthy and thriving member And it certainly didn't diminish my sex drive or sensitivity, that was my own doing later in life lol.

    I think the ancient traditions did it because of a sort of blind faith tradition, but it was founded in a type of truth. Similar to the eating traditions of ancient Judaism, and also those of the East (which are similar but not identical). They were to preserve a sort of purity of sorts, or to "restrict." A great deal of the old ways form around "restriction," even the concepts found within Kaballah. To restrict and to desire, and the fine balance between them. But is this really important to know?

    If it diminishes pleasure or sensitivity, then perhaps it was done so that the initiate did not get "tempted" too far into the wrong direction. That is not say sex is wrong, but I can tell you it doesn't matter what tradition of the east or west, "masturbation" is considered a waste. Certain middle-eastern/western traditions, it is believed to go straight to a negative energy. In the easy you are wasting "essence" and can never get the pre-natal chi back (although, you can revitalize it). One of the keys to "accessing God" was celibacy, in Buddhism, while they don't believe in a Monotheistic God, to connect to that "void" that ultimate reality, celibacy was also part of the process. In Hindu, to reach a certain state these things are also recommended.

    Modern science did not exist, and neither did the new forms (new age and otherwise) of interpreting the energy bodies, systems, and subtle energies of the body. So they had to rely on tradition and LAW to ensure and keep the process. While today we tend to look down on these rigid belief systems and structures, in a way I'm glad they were kept this way- mainly so that today we can see where these dogmas originate, and also understand the old in a new way.

    Also there is the practice of supposedly keeping that area clean and free of diseases and infections. Plus, I've found that many girls love it I'm not condoning it, it might be better to just keep it al-naturale, but I don't really invest too much time in over-analyzing whether I'm pro or anti. I just am, and in a way am grateful for it. if I wasn't, I'm sure I would feel the exact same way. Doing it later in life......shit! I don't think so :P
    Last edited by AmentiHall; 09-21-2011 at 02:00 PM.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1month1day11 View Post
    You were infracted for this post? I don't understand?
    Yep.

    I sent a msg to the mods and df.

    Its fickled but they have the "power".

    Anyhows we should let is rest here before infractions start flooding in!
    I will keep you posted!
    A Silent Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by illuminati View Post
    Yep.

    I sent a msg to the mods and df.

    Its fickled but they have the "power".

    Anyhows we should let is rest here before infractions start flooding in!
    I will keep you posted!
    Wow, Lumi, I'm sorry. I agree.

  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by illuminati View Post

    I did a pelvic exam of a 70 something patient and was surprised to see the cervix next to the labia!
    I had to laugh so hard reading this, it deserved to be quoted by itself.

    I get that the tearing brings issues, I just wish someone had told me throughout the pregnancy that there are preventive measures that can be taken; it would have been worth a shot imo, cause I still struggle with pains in that are (8 years later). My reference to the episiotomy related to the statement that suggest women are asked permission, not so to much the function of the incision.

    I used to be vehemently against circumcision, but as times goes by I see some merit in it. Sexually (a completely subjective assertion) I prefer a man with foreskin; it creates less friction during intercourse for me and it is easier to please him orally. In addition, the foreskin serves a natural protective function; removing it exposes and somewhat desensitizes the male organ. However, the hygiene argument is more complex than I assumed at first. Especially now that I see my boy lacking the willingness to take proper care it begins to make a lot more sense. Aside from infections, or maybe because of even mild infections throughout live, man with foreskin are prone to certain types of cancer once they get older. Back in the day, we did not worry about that cause we did not live as long; similar is true for foreskin praising cultures, such as India, were the life expectancy was fairly short up until recently.
    ~ A Clockwork Indigo ~

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    kegal excercise...

    its a muscle and needs rehab and strengthening..

    but if I ever hear a girl say that a vj is strong...I am done!!!
    A Silent Master

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    lol ... I did/do kegel exercises; I don't think I'm strong though. It's kinda funny, doing kegels is working like an aphrodisiac for me; very stimulating!
    ~ A Clockwork Indigo ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by lillies1978 View Post
    lol ... I did/do kegel exercises; I don't think I'm strong though. It's kinda funny, doing kegels is working like an aphrodisiac for me; very stimulating!
    Your hubby should be very appreciative!!!!
    A Silent Master

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    I think its so sexy for a woman to understand he body and be proactive in maintaining her "sexy" despite lifes hiccups!!!

    Good for all those "darklight females" you all are too beautiful!!!!

    Make me some cookies....please!
    A Silent Master

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    I put little weights on my johnny, and practice lifting them up and down. My gf appreciates it!

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    lol ... life wouldn't be half as funny without the visual impression I get.
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    My Jhonny can bench 350

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    geez... when they say focus on the third eye, I dont think that's the eye they mean...
    ~~it is no measure of health, to be adjusted to a sick society~~
    ...~~may the bridges I burn light the way~~...

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    On the violence thing, in my opinion, surgery is violence. I'm not saying I'm against surgery. When its necesary its necesary. Its still a violent form of healing.
    ~ Tobias Faolan A - The Phoenix~

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    lol

    1. I am mad that you refer to "it" as johnny
    2. I am more made that amenti and visioneer both have the same johnny...

    (coughs ... deeps his man card voice)

    Well my pleasure leviathian spits the milk of love as venom...and he scintillates to numb all his victims into erotic paralytic convulsions muahhaahhahaha
    A Silent Master

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