The Bible and Witchcraft

[Charity]

The Necronomicon was a book within a book created by H.P Lovecraft as a evil device (and plot device) in his horror stories. H.P Lovecraft never published a Necronomicon. He was an atheist and was kind of amused by readers who believed the deities in his stories were real. While his stories and stories derived from his works contain cultural anthropology and religious theories, I warn against taking them too seriously.


This ad goes away when you register.

[bluewaterdance]

I appreciate your intention to treat all religions with respect. It's so hard to reconstruct historical meanings and events from several thousand years ago. However more about the last 200 years is known. It's not accurate to say that Jews ran Germany (they weren't even given citizenship or civil rights until a few decades before the Holocaust). And I am not sure the behavior of any group could ever be a justification for genocide. The ONLY reason behind the Holocaust is that humans are quite capable of being destructive towards one another over differences. And that certainly has been the case for witches again and again. We all need to find the part of our belief system that promotes openness love and peace.

QUOTE=blissfulheart;891794]It's interesting that you mentioned the Jewish religion. I have a friend and had read one of his books that listed all the "elementals" and powers within this known world. It's strange because supposidly the Jewish "god" gave the people control over the elements and allowed them to work with them. This of course we see what happened it lead to corrpution and greed. Jesus had to step in and turn the tables on the original jewish people because of the way this "power" was used. Again it occurred within Germany...the Jews ran most of Germany which was the original reason behind what occurred during the Holocust. Yet magick in and of itself is not evil...it's the intent and reason that we utilize it. I had read the Necronomicon awhile back and it mentioned that many people whom read it were evil and yada yada but my first intent was to make clear that I would read it but utilize what it told me for a "good" purpose. It's strange because if people realized why certain ceremonies worked...even how the power of prayer and thought worked people would change their minds. Though of course it bothers me that the Christians seem to think that all of US that utilize magic are evil...it's so not true though I can see why it was done. It's so that we don't utilize it for "selfish" intent and instead give up "control" so to speak and know that whatever needs to occur always shall. I've been reading the Bible alot more and even staying in a Christian Mission right now...lol...yet I am far from Christian at heart....well you could say my mission is to dispell the illusions so that people wake up. If you look at the religions per say it shows that there are many "God's Goddesses" many Et races out there right? Yet Christianity pretty much says all these are worthless/pointless and we must bow bown and worship in the name of the 1, what if we acknowledge all of them and understand the "bigger picture" instead of being stuck within a little box w/ alot of belief systems and dogmas. I like that kind of freedom.[/QUOTE]

[Slade]

If you live a life of example and cannot be faulted on the example you set, it would speak for itself. Purity comes to mind. As far as believing in a creator god I have to admit that my education does not have room for that. As for the Indigo age, well you are all supposed to be in love with the universe. Born sensitive to what is happening here right now in this crazy world. Your abilities are not unique as every single person on this planet is capable of the exact same. That is not realized by modern man who is lead by the illusion created by Christianity and capitalism from long time ago. The god concept as it is described in modern religion as opposed to Genesis has many flaws for example GENESIS 2:10

“And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Hav’ilah, where there is gold; and the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone”

Does the single verse announce the end of the stone age? What kind of god would lead his future homo-sapiens race directly towards gold (Capitalism)? Makes you think and this is but one example! The Bible was written for primitive minds and even Jesus was also considered guilty of witchcraft. We are ending off the age of Pisces and now entering the age of Aquarius also known as the age of the mind. The doubt that follows Christianity at present is a result of all the confusion caused by over 350 sects of the same thing. What is needed is collective thought and it needs to be based on what is known to humanity at present. I would have a tendency to think that if you use any ability you have to the benefit humanity and raising humanity to the next dimension it would be noble as long as you stay humble. The only thing that supersedes knowledge is wisdom and wisdom comes from within. You all have it.....use it!

[Know the Truth]

If you live a life of example and cannot be faulted on the example you set, it would speak for itself. Purity comes to mind. As far as believing in a creator god I have to admit that my education does not have room for that. As for the Indigo age, well you are all supposed to be in love with the universe.

Hmmm... but what if the universe is actually within God? In other words, that a divine being either dreamed or thought us into existence and created us the way we create dreams in our own subconscious? IDK, it just seems as though a lot of people give up on believing in a creator because they can't find "proof" of one. But I see proof all around us in so many things.

[blissfulheart]

The Necronomicon was a book within a book created by H.P Lovecraft as a evil device (and plot device) in his horror stories. H.P Lovecraft never published a Necronomicon. He was an atheist and was kind of amused by readers who believed the deities in his stories were real. While his stories and stories derived from his works contain cultural anthropology and religious theories, I warn against taking them too seriously.

A work of fiction...yes I agree 100% but I also fully believe that everything that is writen and created holds some truth as it was divinely inspired in some way shape or form....that's the way that creativty works...inspiration. Anyway I never said that I believed they were real but you could say I understood what he was trying to show, and yes I even found truth within something that some might call evil. It's all good though.

[Charity]

...Does the single verse announce the end of the stone age? What kind of god would lead his future homo-sapiens race directly towards gold (Capitalism)? Makes you think and this is but one example! The Bible was written for primitive minds and even Jesus was also considered guilty of witchcraft. We are ending off the age of Pisces and now entering the age of Aquarius also known as the age of the mind. The doubt that follows Christianity at present is a result of all the confusion caused by over 350 sects of the same thing. What is needed is collective thought and it needs to be based on what is known to humanity at present. I would have a tendency to think that if you use any ability you have to the benefit humanity and raising humanity to the next dimension it would be noble as long as you stay humble. The only thing that supersedes knowledge is wisdom and wisdom comes from within. You all have it.....use it!

God does not dislike metals and gemstones in of themselves, but He does condemn the excessive collection of them. The easiest example I can give of a positive use of gold is the breastplate of the High Priest of the Israelites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m3ou...eature=related

The easiest example I can give of a negative use of gold is coveting it from idols, "The images of their gods you are to burn in the fire. Do not covet the silver and gold on them, and do not take it for yourselves, or you will be ensnared by it, for it is detestable to the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 7:25). It is clear in the Old Testament that the worship of gold and silver is considered wrong. While it is often casually mentioned in the test, it is clear that there are more important things than material possession. In both the Old and New Testament it is clear that God has authority over the riches of the Earth.

When this earth passes away, there will be a street of gold on the new Earth, "The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass" (Revelation 21:21).

[Clear Blue Sky]

Let's just all agree not to burn other people?

[tmt]

This will be my New Years resolution - not to burn others at the stake for witchcraft.

Let's just all agree not to burn other people?

[Slade]

Hmmm... but what if the universe is actually within God? In other words, that a divine being either dreamed or thought us into existence and created us the way we create dreams in our own subconscious? IDK, it just seems as though a lot of people give up on believing in a creator because they can't find "proof" of one. But I see proof all around us in so many things.

You say that like you are living in a dream. Proof of human existence on this planet dates back 2.8 billion years. The world is an estimated 13.8 billion years old. There were 5 mass destructions that we know of and the last one was just before the bible times about 11600 - 11200 years ago. It is possibly the story of Noah but we cant say. Created, yes we were but not the earth. We are a result of genetic manipulation but we come from here as well. Our DNA matches 50% with that of rice for argument sake. We have no connection to Neanderthal and our closest relative is the chimp with 99% DNA match. About 200 - 100 000 years ago our brain size increased from 700g to 1.2 kg and there is no explanation for that! I suppose what I am saying is that there was interference. From what I can make out is that the earth stood still for about 55 million years and then something happened. Genesis tells us of this but no one reads it. They all think they know it because they were taught it as children and that is where the problem lies! Once you understand Genesis you will make a different sense of the entire book. I understand what you are saying but you base that on your postulates as does everyone.

[Slade]

God does not dislike metals and gemstones in of themselves, but He does condemn the excessive collection of them. The easiest example I can give of a positive use of gold is the breastplate of the High Priest of the Israelites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m3ou...eature=related

The easiest example I can give of a negative use of gold is coveting it from idols, "The images of their gods you are to burn in the fire. Do not covet the silver and gold on them, and do not take it for yourselves, or you will be ensnared by it, for it is detestable to the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 7:25). It is clear in the Old Testament that the worship of gold and silver is considered wrong. While it is often casually mentioned in the test, it is clear that there are more important things than material possession. In both the Old and New Testament it is clear that God has authority over the riches of the Earth.

When this earth passes away, there will be a street of gold on the new Earth, "The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass" (Revelation 21:21).

Yes, sure it is preached but it did not help. I would have a tendency to think that a high priest should be a humble and peaceful man! Did he need it? Gold has enslaved the human race and if he did not show it to them we would not have needed those teachings.

[LadyArae]

Let's just all agree not to burn other people?

Or stone, drown, hang, decapitate or quarter. ...or anything else I'm forgetting. It's flatout bullshit.

[Know the Truth]

You say that like you are living in a dream. Proof of human existence on this planet dates back 2.8 billion years. The world is an estimated 13.8 billion years old. There were 5 mass destructions that we know of and the last one was just before the bible times about 11600 - 11200 years ago. It is possibly the story of Noah but we cant say. Created, yes we were but not the earth.

I'm not saying that we are living in a dream - - as the term "dreamed" was an analogy in this instance. I was only hypothesizing a theory of how we, the earth and the universe may have come into existence. Many ancient religions dealt with this "universal dreamer" concept. Sacred geometry is, in part, based on this as well.

If we were created, then it means that at some point there was a concept or blueprint. It's like saying someone "dreamed" an idea - - the person came up with a concept or theory, and later a blueprint, if the idea is something to be created or built.

We are a result of genetic manipulation but we come from here as well. Our DNA matches 50% with that of rice for argument sake. We have no connection to Neanderthal and our closest relative is the chimp with 99% DNA match. About 200 - 100 000 years ago our brain size increased from 700g to 1.2 kg and there is no explanation for that! I suppose what I am saying is that there was interference. From what I can make out is that the earth stood still for about 55 million years and then something happened. Genesis tells us of this but no one reads it. They all think they know it because they were taught it as children and that is where the problem lies! Once you understand Genesis you will make a different sense of the entire book. I understand what you are saying but you base that on your postulates as does everyone.

I actually agree entirely with this last part of what you said. It's true that there are certain aspects of Genesis that seem a bit ambiguous without understanding the other "meanings" behind the text. Other parts can be understood quite clearly on the surface.

I wasn't disputing any of the factual evidence of existing creation - - just throwing a few ideas out there. Lol, and like you said, everyone bases some (or many) things they say on their own postulates. We are both doing that in our replies to each other. I understand what you are saying too.

[Clear Blue Sky]

Or stone, drown, hang, decapitate or quarter. ...or anything else I'm forgetting. It's flatout bullshit.

Fair point. No murders,

I still think that expression was worded kind of strange. All the other places inthe Old Testament God was telling folks to kill other folks, it is written in no uncertain terms. 'not suffer to live' . . . I get a disconcerting notion that's one of those things maybe text got twisted out of context at some point. Is there any particular case in the bible stories where we actually have an account of the Judahians killing a witch for witchcraft?

[Clear Blue Sky]

wonder what folks think of this article regarding the translation of that passage:
http://www.hollowhill.com/fun/halloween/witch-bible.htm that it may not have applied to 'witches' at all?

[bron020]

for anyone who plays Skyrim. The elves and mages could be considered the Sorcerers and Wiches. And the Nords and their God Talos are the early Christians. The Emprials are the Roman empire.

[injured owl]

for anyone who plays Skyrim. The elves and mages could be considered the Sorcerers and Wiches. And the Nords and their God Talos are the early Christians. The Emprials are the Roman empire.

Have people stopped with the taking an arrow to the knee meme yet ? Man that was getting old really quick lol ...

[injured owl]

Seconded. And yet, people can't seem to have respect enough for eachother and just let it all be without some kind of grand pissing contest about who's faith is faithier.

People can have a hard time with paradoxes lol ... trying to understand what they see and experience and what it says about them, verses what it's saying about the thing itself, verses everyone else .... you get hung up on any one aspect and the pissing comes naturally :~)

People say "think outside the box", but I would say, "piss outside the box please" lol ...

[bron020]

Have people stopped with the taking an arrow to the knee meme yet ? Man that was getting old really quick lol ...

No it is actually still very popular

[Know the Truth]

wonder what folks think of this article regarding the translation of that passage:
http://www.hollowhill.com/fun/halloween/witch-bible.htm that it may not have applied to 'witches' at all?

The explanation provided in the article seems accurate to me. That verse in Exodus 22 almost seems like it was abridged - - like there was originally more to it, perhaps. It was only one line and didn't give as much explanation as the other verses about civil conduct. Also, aside from the warnings against "witchcraft" elswhere in the Bible, there isn't anything stating that witches should be sought after in any way.

I certainly don't think that Jesus would have advocated persecuting anyone. While I think that the Bible is accurate in most regards, there are certainly parts of it that have been changed or parts that have been left out. And it also doesn't seem (at least in my opinion) that God would want to advocate killing anyone simply for theological reasons, either.

The Bible certainly contains the Word of God, but I think the fallacy lies in human error in writing or translation in some instances. A lot also has to do with incorrect interpretation throughout the ages.

[Clear Blue Sky]

Good thoughts, KtT.

I was thinking today it was interesting how Jesus came at the moment when Jews had pretty good religious freedom in their own country, but were ruled under a foreign secular authority that requried them to hand Jesus over to Pilate for instance, rather than public stoning or simply stabbing like Phineas did to Balaam in the Exodus. Like the Executive branch had been removed from their sphere of influence, and many of the exectutive aspects they clung to Jesus chided them on for not going with a fuller heart. Have you read Josephus' Antiquities accounted to the Roman Emperor. While the story of Joseph and his brothers reunited contains weeping and sentiment and a breakdown display of emotional appeal in the bible that I read, Josephus telling it to the ruling Emperor replaced all that pathos with a rationalized even-tempered logical debate.. . . you are right about translation though. Some churches forbid alcohol or have behavioral restrictions that can't really be found in scripture or any true command of God.