be the change

[h0bby1]

"be the change
you wish to see in the world"

does not make sense
if you were the change
then you would not have to be it
but if you didn't want it
you would never have it

this is just an enabling phrase

it is about charity not ending at home, and bringing change by being what you want to be, instead of protesting against something it is the meaning of this saying taken in the good context

[AmonRa]

i think that sort of saying btw it is directly toltoyist, i know that shit it not even really budhist or linked with the secret that much to begin with

all those stuff of tolstoy, anarchist and community oriented things, i know this stuff, that could be my religion if i had one

now you can ask yourself what kind of community will arise from that kind of model, for me it doesn't take too long to figure it out

there is a kind of context of community activism tied into this, it is not all about yourself with this saying

it just mean don't be a jerk if you want to be a peace activism, play your community rules, not be a jerk against your percieved enmy that's what gandhi followed, it is more about that kind of stuff than about the secret or personal intention

Nah, It was already there in Tibetan Buddhism so much stuff was already there in Tibetan traditions when everybody else was still eating their snot and throwing rocks at each other.

[h0bby1]

why would I wanna be the change?
that would be selfish
I Rather change others

yes, but change other for what ? if you are already what you want to be, and living happy life, and what to change other to that life style in a community sense, that's what it is supposed to be, but it is about ppl who are not what they pretend to be, and act like jerks outside of their home, and like nice person inside of their home

[h0bby1]

Nah, It was already there in Tibetan Buddhism so much stuff was already there in Tibetan traditions when everybody else was still eating their snot and throwing rocks at each other.

this sentence as it is formulate, it is not sanscrit lol it is from gandhi originally who took from tolstoy, but there are similar things in the tao as well, originally it is more inspired from christianism than budhism, it is totally integrated into russia anarchist activism context, not in tibet

[h0bby1]

be the change you want to be mean, act everywhere like if it was your own home

[AmonRa]

"be the change
you wish to see in the world"

does not make sense
if you were the change
then you would not have to be it
but if you didn't want it
you would never have it

this is just an enabling phrase

Be the change rings along what Christians say about miracles "help yourself and the heavens will help you".

If your life sucks and you don't start by 1) changing your state of mind and 2) moving your ass, nobody will do it for you.
It's a bit like diplomacy: you need to show the other that you're ready to put the gun down and start talking.
Not necessarily throw your gun first and risk a bullet for being dumb, but still initiate the will to change the situation.
Nobody will do it for you (not everytime anyway) so changing the way you see things is the first step to actual changes (or at least the physical possibility for change)

If your life sucks and you want to be happy, start smiling for no reason, and try to think about things that make you happy. It's empowerment. People who complain and bitch about the world usually ain't doing shit about it, or/and have a very deeply stranded mindset that says the world is fucked and nothing good happens to them. And so, their world is fucked and nothing good happens to them. No reason it should.

[h0bby1]

now i know about the secret and power of intention and all that, but it is not from this context that this saying come originally

[h0bby1]

Be the change rings along what Christians say about miracles "help yourself and the heavens will help you".

If your life sucks and you don't start by 1) changing your state of mind and 2) moving your ass, nobody will do it for you.
It's a bit like diplomacy: you need to show the other that you're ready to put the gun down and start talking.
Not necessarily throw your gun first and risk a bullet for being dumb, but still initiate the will to change the situation.
Nobody will do it for you (not everytime anyway) so changing the way you see things is the first step to actual changes (or at least the physical possibility for change)

If your life sucks and you want to be happy, start smiling for no reason, and try to think about things that make you happy. It's empowerment. People who complain and bitch about the world usually ain't doing shit about it, or/and have a very deeply stranded mindset that says the world is fucked and nothing good happens to them. And so, their world is fucked and nothing good happens to them. No reason it should.

yes ok, but that's still not exactly the context from which this saying come from it is not about empowerement originally, that's a whole different thing it is about creating viable community, it is not about help yourself or such thing, it is not self orient, it is community oriented from scratch, it mean spend more time acting like you want the world to be instead of throwing stone at wall street

[AmonRa]

this sentence as it is formulate, it is not sanscrit lol it is from gandhi originally who took from tolstoy, but there are similar things in the tao as well, originally it is more inspired from christianism than budhism, it is totally integrated into russia anarchist activism context, not in tibet

I have Tibetan traditions books, about pre-Buddhism stuff (that do sound very Taoist, I agree) including some highly advanced and difficult esoteric Chikung stuff, translated from 4000yo documents. Pretty sure it beats Tolstoy lol

[h0bby1]

it mean spend more time developing your community to make it feel like home instead of trolling other forums like a jerk

[h0bby1]

I have Tibetan traditions books, about pre-Buddhism stuff (that do sound very Taoist, I agree) including some highly advanced and difficult esoteric Chikung stuff, translated from 4000yo documents. Pretty sure it beats Tolstoy lol

it is not about dick contest who beat who with what book, this saying still doesn't come from budhism that's just it period this saying is not intented as a budhist empowerement thing, now maybe your 4000 year old book beat everything else and you rock more than anyone else with your 4000 year old budhist tradition, but that's just not what this saying is about

i have a 40 000 year old book that say grmnlm grlnm (no language invented yet it was still prehistory that pretty much beat any kind of budhist tradition way older)

[AmonRa]

The Secret didn't invent anything, they just did a good marketing job at a very good timing.
Same goes with Conversations with God. Nothing new.
I have a book written in 1902 by a protestant reverend, that talks in very "Law of One"-ish terms about God-as-universal-consciousness and life on other planets. This stuff is OLD, just used to be secret.

It doesn't matter whether it's about manifestation or just literal advice. If it's good advise, I like it.
If there is a deeper, spiritual meaning to it, even better.

Be the change is good advice . Even if misunderstood lol
Same goes with "Know Thyself"... However you get it, if you apply it, it's good advice.

[AmonRa]

it is not about dick contest who beat who with what book, this saying still doesn't come from budhism that's just it period this saying is not intented as a budhist empowerement thing, now maybe your 4000 year old book beat everything else and you rock more than anyone else with your 4000 year old budhist tradition, but that's just not what this saying is about

i have a 40 000 year old book that say grmnlm grlnm (no language invented yet it was still prehistory that pretty much beat any kind of budhist tradition way older)

LOL. 40.000yo dick contest... Now that's resilience!

[h0bby1]

not everything is the same than old buddhist tradition book, there are other tradition all over the planets as well, with different sayings and different objectives, now that's not really about who beat who, just about the meaning behind a saying that is obviously not budhist and very different from what you explained about it which is a whole different thing, maybe it beat a lot with 4000 year old docuement and all that, no doubt about it, who can beat it anyway, i guess no one, all the rest must be ignorant compared to your great 4000 year old books that contain everything

[h0bby1]

but this kind of saying is really community oriented, very different from budhist things that are about consciousness of self, that could be more tied into some form of socialism of sort, it is about community building in the context of activism, in the context gandhi said it, it was not only about himself and his own consciousness, but about the whole community he was speaking for it is classied into 'non violent activism' but that's only a part of the meaning, it is about focusing on developping your life and your community instead of being 'activists' as ppl see it traditionally in the anarchist view, it is not only about the power of intention and all this, it is a developement of it, that's deeper it goes at society level not only on self consciousness level like budhism it is not only about living in a cave meditating to reach enligthement, but about society building, about building whole society as you want it to be, instead of spitting on what see as wrong in the society, build your own society and community

[AmonRa]

I said "beat" because, no offense, but Tolstoy is modern, and all this stuff was already around way before he took his first sip of milk. Most stuff we read was either inspired or rebuffed from older teachings.
I'm not trying to compete on age. Just saying stuff like "be the change" is a classics. I'm pretty sure even the Egyptians got that.

And as I said, it doesn't have to be meditative/wishful thinking oriented.
It can be just physical, literal, "move your fat lazy butt" old school advice.

Everything has been translated and retranslated anyway, and most things have several layers of meaning too.


And I agree about that society/community building part.
You just highjacked my reply to shilluminati (who turned out being roll-T)

[h0bby1]

the law of one, it was already existing in the acneit greek time, pythagora and plato were already all into it even before the christ, Anaxagoras was already speaking about pan spermia and life from the cosmos, he actually coined this term of cosmos, it was even centuries christ was born

[h0bby1]

I said "beat" because, no offense, but Tolstoy is modern, and all this stuff was already around way before he took his first sip of milk. Most stuff we read was either inspired or rebuffed from older teachings.
I'm not trying to compete on age. Just saying stuff like "be the change" is a classics. I'm pretty sure even the Egyptians got that.

And as I said, it doesn't have to be meditative/wishful thinking oriented.
It can be just physical, literal, "move your fat lazy butt" old school advice.

Everything has been translated and retranslated anyway, and most things have several layers of meaning too.


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And I agree about that society/community building part.
You just highjacked my reply to shilluminati (who turned out being roll-T)

they didn't have the same problematics in tibet or in bhudism, actually those problematics of community oriented things didn't arise so clearly before modern time, the principle is quite old, but i'm not sure ppl were that much embeded into this problematics of social activism like it was in modern time like in the context of tolstoy or gandhi, budhist it is even more extrem than gandhi or tolstoy in the sense they are not even into activism at all but with what happened in tibet recently in modern time yes that might be about it too, but it is still not entierly about self emporewement and power of intention in the self oriented way like budhism is about, and not only about help yourself and god will help you, this is indeed pretty old, but the formulation adapted to the context in which it was occuring, i don't think it was happening that much before modern time and all the revolution that happened all around the world past 2 centuries, that's pretty much unprecedented at this kind of scale, that whole countries were into big mess and global revolution on the rises like it happened in the whole world past centuries, that was not really in the air anytime before at that kind of scale before all the colonial era and stuff, but it is also derived from ancient source who are derived from ancient source, after you can always link everything to anything else, that's why it is important to also clearly link to the good source and the good context and stick to the writting if you want to do ny kind of serious study, and not mixing up and connectiing everything to anything else because it is similar

[h0bby1]

in tosltoy and gandhi there is still an aspect of resistance and maintaining a sort of culture of way of life not entierly similar to budhism kind of things :=)

about maintaining a bit of 'indigoness' what ever on this forum, just for the principle or something lol

ppl brag about unconditional love and that sort things, that's not what i see happenning, or not what i see moderator really doing now that's just my take on the thing lol

[h0bby1]

like for example, would do this in your own home, would like ppl to do it in your own home ?

in your case i'm sure you'd answer yes but well that's the principle for normal ppl who don't have poster of leprous dick in their home