Energy Work: Literally asking for permission? - No

[lillies1978]

I often hear here and elsewhere that one has to literally ask permission before starting to work with someone's energy; I disagree with that notion. To me, the formality of asking for permission appears as a way to commercialize energy work and/or to take credit for the effects. I do not support commercialization of energy-work (i.e. charge money or facilitate another form of direct trade), nor do I care to take credit for its effects.

Some claim you have to ask permission in order to protect the person's free will or freedom of choice. Well, that sounds nice but it is a rather moot, not to say pointless argument. Free will is an illusion, we face limitations and boundaries in every moment of this earth-bound life. In addition, what happens on the mind-level versus the energy-level can be, and often is, conflicting. A person might say they want it but they are far from ready on the energetic level; others refuse the offer even though they need it more than anybody else (i.e. people who are to proud to accept help).

Certainly, if you actually have to physically touch someone you should ask permission because if you don't, you might get punched. Energy work does not (necessarily) require physical touch, however.
If I'm inclined to work on someone I feel it out rather than asking for a literal permission because the feedback from my senses is way more accurate than the literal responses I might get. Do I breach through every boundary to get the work done? NO! If it doesn't feel right I won't do it; but if it does feel right, I will do it without "permission" and announcement.

[Sylvester]

Concur.

That makes you the 2d person I know to hold that opinion.

[LH919]

As long as you are

willing to accept the consequences of your actions

you can do whatever you like

there are consequences

of sending energy

without asking permission

just as there are consequences

of disrespecting any other

personal boundary

[rabana]

just as there are consequences

of disrespecting any other

personal boundary

i agree. for me this is a general ethical point, applicable in many areas, not just in healing.

Free will is an illusion, we face limitations and boundaries in every moment of this earth-bound life.

i fully agree with you on that one lillies. in addition to limitations and boundaries there are profound influences, seen and unseen, on our 'choices'.

[lillies1978]

As long as you are

willing to accept the consequences of your actions

you can do whatever you like

there are consequences

of sending energy

without asking permission

just as there are consequences

of disrespecting any other

personal boundary

Every action or lack thereof has consequences, it does not matter if you have a literal permission or not. Perhaps I need to emphasize "literal" ... I don't breach energetic boundaries, I just ignore the fickle constructs of the mind. You can feel right from wrong, there is no need to discuss it with words.

[leila]

yeah i'm with rabana and LH on this one, there is a good reason this is said.....that this is considered to be important.

BUT i do think theres some.....ummm....unintentional...less directed kinds of "healing"...and energy transfers that just happen...i dont think thats quite the same......you know you shouldnt be blocking something thats of a more natural flowing quality with like everybody....theres a certain way this happens naturally thats not the same. its just more connection, interacting....and in that way its obviously welcome with someone....when you are in some kind of connection with them anyway....of friendship and intimacy...or whatever. very different.


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although on a few very rare occasions i have felt moved to, considered this, and decided not to...but instead just...well i dont know to describe it....i guess someone would call it "praying" for them....its more like holding someone close in your heart and wishing them well...not directing energy at them. or intending anything.....and again more of just a naturally flowing thing...not so much intentionally "healing"...i think thats different. i've heard people describe this differently......

[Indigo Dog]

From a personal point of view I have found that asking permission or being in agreement with the recipient created a more powerful and effective outcome. When the sender and receiver are both intending a positive result, not only is it faster and more productive, I myself am less drained.

Of course you don't always have the luxury of asking if a person is in a coma, but being in agreement, receptive, and giving permission is a good foundation to energy work from.

Just another perspective.

[AmonRa]

In my experience, unwanted energy will simply rebound and disperse.

The problem about asking permission, is that to actually get the reply, you need a strong and clear communication channel with your own higherself, or an even stronger empathic ability to get the message from the recipient's higherself.

Since most people working in energy work are beginners, or on the way up (a very long way up), the vast majority of people are still working on themselves, and not able to get that level of subtle communication.

Point is, unless you're a very strong energy worker, and you have some very peculiar views on reality, mixed with self-centered desires, you will probably not have enough energy flow or energy focus to really affect anyone, even if that person's higherself allows it in the first place. Most people can only summon their favorite type of energy, and direct it towards the person. Even holding the flow at a certain position will not affect that bodypart unless desired by the person's soul. It's possible to direct bad, manipulative energy, but again, that requires a very strong, twisted energy worker, and both higherselves' permissions.

Consequences can only appear in your own reality, as a decision you have made, leading to a path you now have to walk.
On the other person's side, whatever is taken is taken freely, and whatever responsibility is linked to it will be borne by that person's selves, not yours. You're just providing opportunity and catalyst.

I'm speaking for myself, and every professional healer I've met so far in my life.

[AmonRa]

Edit: I think asking for guidance is always a good idea. But when you do energy work often, it becomes automatic,
Ie. You know intrisically whether it's okay or not... It doesn't require any words, questions or time anymore.

This said, this process is EXACTLY the same as regular guidance you should be asking for everytime you make a decision in life, go right go left. Eat this eat that, talk to this person, leave her alone, etc.

It's the same thing, and that guidance focuses on what needs to be done for YOU, not others.
If you're already following your heart, gut feelings and intuition in general, "asking for permission" goes without saying.
But it's not about "disrespecting the other". Everybody is sovereign, however small and weak they might look in physical reality. If they are on your path, it's for a reason. Maybe they need to meet you and not get any energy per se, and just the opportunity or semblance of a healing session, but you yourself have absolutely no power to affect anyone unless their soul allows it. A lesson painfully learned after 2 years of intensive daily energy work.


Also consider this: sometimes I'm in the train or on a plaza or something, and my crown opens wide, secondary chakras kick in, and i get overwhelmed by a flow of energy far superior to my own blend. The flow is accompanied by a strong impulse to "go supernova" and "flash" everybody within a few hundred meters radius.
This comes straight from my higherself, and I can't do anything about it, because it feels like THIS is what I was born for.
Do you think I have time as I cross that plaza or ride the train through Tokyo at full speed to pause and ask permission to every person who will bathe in my light?
Of course not. I trust my higherself and I trust the timing, and I trust that everybody on that wagon needs the boost.
Those who don't, like small children (already waaay more powerful than everything I can flash out) will simply look at me with a small smile and express a "no thanks, but do go on by all means."

It takes 5-15 seconds in total, and I hit a hundred people, just in the train, plus the people in the zone as the train moves by. No way I can voice out a request for permission. And if I asked once including hundreds of people in the phrasing, like "for all concerned", it would reduce the request to an almost empty ritual or routine, and i don't like that. Your higheself knows best. Don't limit yourself unless you're about to do something and feel a sudden, strong repulsion and dread. That's a refusal alright.
But if you proceed with energy work, and nothing "bad" happens, you're good to go.

[AmonRa]

Sorry to ramble, I just got this from my higherself:
(actually came out of the shower to type this all wet )

Please trust at least a bit in the universal logic. The universe doesn't make any mistakes, and what happens is always either intended or, at least, allowed. Nothing, no-thing, happens unbidden, and when creativity sprouts something new, unwanted aspects will just not remain in the reality chosen to be experienced.

Energy work, ie. Summoning, feeling, moving, transfering energy to "someone" else, is still basically transfering energy from yourself (the universe) to yourself/everybody else (also the universe).
Basically, nothing can go wrong.

Next, energy work is a BASIC skill, for all beings, including every lifeform in this low-energy density.
Anyone can do it, or remember how to do it, and people can become quite good at doing it over a couple days of reiki camp, or similar activities.

Now, on the other hand, communicating clearly with your higherself (as I stated earlier) is difficult, because of all the crap we have gathered in our lives, plus the social conditioning, cultural restrictions, ego in the way, etc.

Which means that the VAST majority of people capable of energy work/energy healing, will be able to do so very quickly, and very easily, while very few people have a clear, clean, stable line of communication with their higherself, and even if they do have it, they still have to LiSTEN and accept the instructions and guidance. That takes years, sometimes dozens of years. Would you, as a conscious, intelligent universal all-encompassing entity, create and offer those events in an order that goes against the smart efficiency of Nature? Nature is always efficient. Water always run downhill.

All in all, even If you DO ask for permission, most people just won't catch the reply.
The higherself and guides are bombarding us with guidance 24/7... How much of it can you feel/hear right now?
Considering that relatively fragile communication flow, asking ANOTHER person's higherself permission is even harder, since you need active psychic abilities to catch the reply.


Now, in a perfectly formed Universe, do you really think we would be given a way of helping people (energy work) without the automatic, prior, means of checking whether it's okay or not? Would it make sense to be able to learn healin modalities in 2 -3 days, but with the condition that you need to be able to ask first, and hear the permission being given or forbidden, which takes a hundreds, thousands of times more work in yourself to learn?

I don't think so. Which implies, for me anyway, that we're allowed to give it a shot, blind, simopy because it cannot do any harm. And when the communication and guidance improve, you just adapt to the increased data flow.

Nothing is wrong in the universe... It's perfect as it is.


Look at the Sun. Does it ask for permission to shine? Of course not.
Are we being forced to live in it's light? Of course not.
Do you feel any pressure at being woken up every morning by its own, self-ruled cycle?
Of course not, unless you have severe distorsions.

Do you think we are ANY different from the Sun? No we're not.
We shine just as much, beyond our physical body, non-stop, and everyone you meet or who just walks by, is bathing in your light and vibrations. Are you going to walk around apologizing for shining on everyone? Of course not.
You are what you are, as you were meant to be.

I'm a healer... I get paid for healing sessions and counseling. But that doesn't mean that I "start" doing energy work when the client is on the table, and I close my eyes and call in guidance. I am a healer. Whatever I do, and wherever I go, I'm still a healer. That's my vibration, that's what I shine out, and that's what people come into contact with as soon as they cross my path, in real life or otherwise.

I can't "stop" being what I am. And as such, I offer as much potential for healing whatever I'm doing, be it in a healing session or waiting for the bus on the street.
If a soul subjects its lowerself to my influence, it's for a reason... Not random, not dangerous, and certainly not expecting me to 1) realize I might be disrespectful and 2) stop being what I am, and stop emitting my vibes because that person just popped into my life or got off the bus in front of me. I am what I am, I shine what I am, and there's nothing I can, or should do about that.

The only difference during a healing session, is that I can, if needed, focus my intent on that person. That's all I can do. She's already within my sphere anyway, whether she takes any of it is beyond my choices.

You cannot not be what you are... You can just not be aware of it.
You can't stop shining what you are either, just like you can't stop the blood flow in your veins. Don't apologize for being yourself, and don't seek in others the permission to be yourself. The only consequence that can happen, is if you're already on a negative path, willingly, and know fullwell what you're doing to others. But that doesn't fall into healing or energy work, more into manipulation.

[leila]

Energy work, ie. Summoning, feeling, moving, transfering energy to "someone" else, is still basically transfering energy from yourself (the universe) to yourself/everybody else (also the universe).
Basically, nothing can go wrong.

yes i agree with this a certain degree...thats all basically what i was also trying to get at...but i think this is different from intentionally doing healing work on someone. its more a natural flow....

well i am not a "healer" specifically, not by profession anyway...so to me thats pretty much all i do...more of that much less formal kind of energy work...not intentionally...just "super nova" like you said...or whatever. just breathing together, like we all are anyway, and sharing intimcay and energy...in a way thats obviously welcome.

but generally i am more working on keeping up good energetic boundaries with people...and not getting into this whole....trying to heal people.well for me its enough just to keep myself grounded and flowing good....and its too easy for me to just get...oo idk...all intermeshed with people in some way thats like way too much. so i am often ocussing on keeping good boundaries...not rigid ones, not totally solid...but flexible "safe" boundaries, to me its "leaving alone respect" ....v important imo.

so its different for me...but in general i agree with the idea that one should and must ask permission. but for the more natural flowing stuff...its different.

even with readings. well especially with readings...i consider astrology to be a kind of healing work...and i do hold that as a rule, i only do astrology work for someone with clear permission. unless...well with some research and famous people, more like study...theres a bit of grey area especially if my intent is to do the research i have done, and these people are way public personalities or whatever....but for just looking at someones chart, yes i consider its very important and should be that you have express permission. to me its the same thing with healing.

though again...not the informal just sharing exchanging energy that comes up naturally....and yeah totally thats more like a universal thing. and i have heard people describe it that way...its like you give to the universe and let it be decided by the universe...if that healing is for that person. something like that....

[JeorneQyu]

Yeah I know from the very first (Just Know or/and added with knowledge from My HS) I've done it just send energy to Anyone (or Anything cz I once send to My notebook) who need it which I don't know directly them in the first place and My energy work just find on Them, there is no bounce back or rebound, sometimes there are counter but not cz there is no permission, but cz it is normal, throw rock into bucket of water, of course there are splashing, so matter is how big is that Rock, choose the right energy to each Person will be nice and flawless.

[evergreen]

I agree that it is not necessary to ask for permission.

IMO praying is a form of energy work. Would we ask someone, "Can I pray for you"? Well, maybe someone would.

I agree with IndigoDog that it can work much better if both parties are in agreement of intention, but I don't find it to be necessary to get permission. The energy will be received or it will not be received IMO.

[AmonRa]

Lillies, sorry to spread myself, i'll be done with this one.

Disrespect, is a human based perception.

If you feel that 1) it is disrespectful for someone to try and send you healing energies without asking you first, no offense, but that's the ego talking. It can be pride, fear, or just distrust regarding the sender's intention.
All these are ego based and misguided.

If you feel that 2) sending energy unbidden is disrespectful, but you never do that, and so YOU are never disrespectful to anyone, that's an ego boost, no offense.

Telling people there are consequences, but that hey, feel free to do it anyway and suffer those consequences, is a type of fearmongering. That vibration is never good to spread, sorry.


Disrespect, to what? That person's free will? Okay. When was the last time you have experienced freewill in this life, since birth? Answer: never.

Temporary, here and there, relative free will, sure. Complete, controlled, lasting free will, no.

Why? Because freewill is a soul's right, not a partially amnesiac, mostly disconnected soul aspect's one.

We do not, as incarnated lowerselves, possess true freewill, simply because we don't remember shit about who we are and what the universe really is like, can't see much better, can't understand much better. Even "awakenning" is done in mini baby steps, cleansing ourselves one web at a time. Freewill and full-blown manifestation powers, in this state, would create more chaos than anything else.

Our soul, the part watching over us right now, do have freewill. Which means that they can control up to 100% what happens to us and, of course, to itself, at any time, outside of time continuum, with as many chances to alter course and try variations every time it is not satisfied with events taking place down here.

Free will at soul level means that nothing we, down here, can do to one another will affect the soul unless it allows it.
Free will.
It also means nothing we can do to one another will affect us, down here, unless both souls allow the event to happen.
Free will.

When was the last time you, as an incarnated, mostly clueless consciousness-in-a-body, felt any true freewill?
If you did, did it last? If it did, would you be here reading my post on IS? Probably not, you'd be living your dream, manifesting everything you need as you go.

When is the last time some event asked for your permission before hitting you like a truck?
Life happens, good things and bad things happen, all regardless of permission to YOU (the lowerself)
If a truck hits you on the road and you end up paralyzed in a bed forever... Does it mean it happened without your soul's permission? That would mean the universe is a fucked up, unfair, random, stupid place.

Or does it mean your soul gave permission for that truck to hit you?
If so, does it make your soul a stupid scumbag? Does it mean your soul enjoys watching you suffer?

Of course not. There's always freewill, there's always a plan, and down here we only see the shadows of what is being designed and orchestrated higher. That's why faith and trust are necessary. Trust in your own (higher)self.

Permission, whenever something happens to YOU, has already been given. If it were any different, that event would not happen in the first place.

If I sent you energy now, not caring about your permission, or about the way you think, and you saw it as a disrespectful act towards you, it's only because it rings a chord inside, that reminds you nobody alive right now has any real control over one's life.
Control is always an illusion, or a temporary toy we are allowed to play with for a time.
The more you clear yourself up, the stronger the connection gets, the more you realize you have no control, but that it's okay, because the aspect of yourself that does have control, is smarter, wiser, loving, and after, your own self.

[leila]

i dont think its all intentional, and clear like that....like that someone would directly feel offended or disrespected, or perceive it at all consciously...but theres some kinds of subconscious things that happen....

when you are dealing with people who are wounded theres generally a lot of trust issues, and closedness...they have been violated in different ways, so things like good "safe"
boundaries are important to think about.....and probably even changes the effectiveness of the work....

think of a scared cat...thats generally on edge around humans anyway...if you get all loud and go right up fast or whatever - they hightail it away so quick!

maybe not the best analogy...but something like this.

it take a certain amount of time and trust, creating and maintaining "safe spaces" i call it with people is important.
its more of subconscious thing, in the subtle.
and this how one can go about it. and sometimes it just means leave it alone.

and so more even than the direct permission/specific discussions or understandings about this, on some deeper un conscious level theres ways to approach (or not) this that then put person on edge (even if they cant figure out why or whats going on exactly) or make them open up freely and feel safe....generally it will be a slow approach, and showing respect in the form of allowing them to open slowly, keep their guards up if thats what they feel.

but i get what you mean...i dont think people should stop exchanging and sharing with people...and you can do this kind of universal energy work, i will call it....and there is no permission needed or required...but totally different than specifically doing this kind of focused healing work....

[AmonRa]

I think most of the time, the real healing happens unbeknownst to the person anyway, so it really is about whether they notice anything at all. I stopped "hitting" people with energy a long time ago, and just offer available energy either in orb or arrow/feather form, and will it to stay close, hovering at the ready, or I just send a wave of undifferenciated energy/intent that the higherselves can work out together whenever they want.

What matters is the intent. The difficult clients, are those who come to you with special or higher expectations, or with the strong intent of proving it's a sham. In either cases, you'll have a bad time dealing with them, but that is also a valid experience for your own growth. Learning to stop trying to please at all cost was a tough step to assimilate for me.
Learning to do that without sounding like a uncaring dickhead is a tough step for some.
It's as much for your own growth as for others'. Everything always functions in dual mode and always servers more than one purpose. Just like french cuisine chefs cook because they wanna cook, not for the customers. The customers just provide a means to pay for the rent while doing one's dream activity, cooking. All in all, everyone's finds his share, which is what really matters. Chefs who focus on pleasing and getting compliments will sooner or later get a nervous breakdown (look at famous actors and comedians, like Jim Carey or Rowan Aktinson...) and will have to learn to do it for their own self, or choose another path. The beautiful thing in the universal clockwork, is that Selflessness , in the absolute, also serves the Self-as-a-part-of-the-whole, while Selfishness also serves the whole, as individual expression of it (the whole) and by providing a "bad guy" figure for everybody else to experience. It all works out beautifully.

[LH919]

No real healing occurs when the person needing it is consciously accessing it

another thing I would like to point out

is to those sending without permission

is that you are deciding

what is best for another

Who are you to decide?

Is your wisdom superior to their

own body/souls wisdom?

It is really very arrogant

to assume the energy you send

is what is needed.

And in that regard

the circle of consequence

for YOU

has begun

[rabana]

Who are you to decide?

thats the crux of the matter imo. let people decide for themselves, however inept they may seem.

[lillies1978]

Lillies, sorry to spread myself, i'll be done with this one.

Disrespect, is a human based perception.

If you feel that 1) it is disrespectful for someone to try and send you healing energies without asking you first, no offense, but that's the ego talking. It can be pride, fear, or just distrust regarding the sender's intention.
All these are ego based and misguided.

If you feel that 2) sending energy unbidden is disrespectful, but you never do that, and so YOU are never disrespectful to anyone, that's an ego boost, no offense.

Telling people there are consequences, but that hey, feel free to do it anyway and suffer those consequences, is a type of fearmongering. That vibration is never good to spread, sorry.


Disrespect, to what? That person's free will? Okay. When was the last time you have experienced freewill in this life, since birth? Answer: never.

Temporary, here and there, relative free will, sure. Complete, controlled, lasting free will, no.

My thoughts exactly!

... and no need to apologize, you may continue to spread yourself

[lillies1978]

No real healing occurs when the person needing it is consciously accessing it

another thing I would like to point out

is to those sending without permission

is that you are deciding

what is best for another

Who are you to decide?

Is your wisdom superior to their

own body/souls wisdom?

It is really very arrogant

to assume the energy you send

is what is needed.

And in that regard

the circle of consequence

for YOU

has begun

You can call me arrogant but it won't change my ways ...

Is a mother arrogant for comforting her child? Should she ask first if the child wants to be comforted or is it obvious? Is it arrogant to work with an animal who is unable to respond literally? Is it arrogant to work with a plant because I can't get literal permission? Should I refuse to work with anything or anybody if I cannot get literal permission? ... I don't think so, sorry.

Any decent energyworker should be able to feel/sense what is needed and whether or not it is wanted; if they can't, they shouldn't be doing that kind of work! While I do not ask literal permission, I do communicate on the spirit level ... I don't force myself on anybody or anything.
I had a thread somewhere that described a technique that I like to call "holding someone's bubble"; I put my work out there but I do not breach through energetic boundaries if they are meant to keep me out ... any being is free to reject what is given.