Is it wrong to act as karma?

[ShadowVegan]

Is it wrong to act as karma? From what I've been told, doing anything based on negative emotions brings bad karma. But consider this hypothetical situation: A truly evil being, who has very bad karma, is attempting to harm my friends. I am very angry at this being. I hate this being. My anger and hate are a result of my love for my friends, so ultimately it all extends from love and compassion. I then channel my anger and hate towards this evil being to give me strength, I attack this being with my anger and hate, I intend to harm this being. I am of course defending my friends and acting on my love and compassion for them, but also acting with karma, giving the evil being what it deserves.


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Do I get good karma not only because I defended my friends but also because I 'helped' karma by giving the evil being what it deserves?

Do I get good karma for defending my friends, but bad karma for acting on anger and hate and harming the evil being? If so, why? Why should I get bad karma when the only one I attempted to harm had it coming and already had bad karma and threatened my friends?

Similarly, more in the area of witchcraft and Wicca (and related areas), is it morally and karmically justified to do something with the intent to harm, perhaps for a greater good, or even for vengeance, if the person to be harmed has bad karma and has it coming? Obviously it would be wrong to cast a spell on someone in attempt to kill them just because the person did something to annoy me, but what if I am only trying to give them what they deserve?

[LunarLotus]

Everything happens for a reason...perhaps there is a reason it has decided to intrude on your friends? Has there been something they could of done to provoke it?

When you place yourself in a position where you defend, you also have to make a judgement to defend in the first place...and when you put yourself in a place where you have to wonder about what type of karma on yourself, then maybe you should step back, re-evaluate the situation, and not interfere. The best thing to do would be to teach your friends how to protect themselves. Then they would always have the knowledge to use at their discretion, and won't have to reach out to others for protection.

To me, if I am going to act on behalf of others, then the karma is at the bottom of the priority list, because I am putting myself in harms way for them. I've already made up my mind to do it, no matter what it earns me.

What has this entity done to them? Is it causing physical pain or illness, or mental/psychological problems or both? What type of people are they? Are the generally kind and thoughtful, or do they swim in negativity and doubt? All those things I take into consideration before I extend myself.

[ShadowVegan]

It is purely hypothetical and of course I would put protecting my friends first, and my own karma second. But in this situation, the being is attacking them purely out of malevolence, they did nothing wrong, they are morally righteous people, it is an unprovoked and wholly unjustified attack, my friends don't know how to protect themselves on their own, I may be able to protect them purely defensively but I choose to act offensively and use my anger and hate. The evil entity might be trying to harm them physically, or emotionally, or whatever, but the point is it has negative, selfish intentions, and is trying to harm good people with no provocation whatsoever, just because it enjoys harming people, it's a really immoral evil being.

[LunarLotus]

Sounds like a Grey.

They are multi-dimensional beings....in my own personal experience, I have seen them here, in this plane, and also in the astral, when I have had OBE.

They are malice incarnate.

Have they ever seen a UFO or had any experiences they could not explain?

Edit: Sorry I missed the hypothetical part.

I just got done working, and the day was very long.

[ShadowVegan]

As I said this is all hypothetical. It is not a real situation, I just made up the situation for the sake of the question. What I am really getting at is whether or not it is morally/karmically right to do harm to an entity who deserves that harm, to sort of be a dealer of justice and deal out karma.

[LunarLotus]

I don't know if it's right to take it into your own hands...the universe and everything in it has a way of balancing itself. If I end up playing a part in someone's karma, or my own, or dealing to another, then I let fate place me in that position, almost like a tool, it is not a conscious choice. I help my friends when needed, but the times I feel it's my place to intervene are very few and far between. I wouldn't call it a question of morally right or wrong...but more whether it's going to really be beneficial to everyone involved or just cause more pain and suffering for everyone.

My bad missing the hypothetical part, I'm exhausted! :P

[luciangus]

I don't think you should fight, because you can't heal evil with evil. All bad actions of humans are consequences of a primary good intention. Just see how you can express the original love in another way, with good actions and feelings, even if the actions have nothing to do with the reason of your anger. If you can't manage do something good about it, just ignore it, and do your good towards other things. But do the good, with love.

[Indigo Dog]

If you rephrase the question to say " Is it OK to take revenge?" You get a different feel about taking out vigilante justice. The goal of revenge is to make yourself feel better and more powerful over a situation or person who caused you hurt.

It is natural to want to push back against something unwanted and uncomfortable. We have an instinct to lash out at what makes us uncomfortable/ threatened, afraid.

I was just listening to a seminar today about how that feeling of hate is not what we think it is. The feeling of hate is not because the bad person did something to hurt us( or hurt our loved ones.) The feeling we have that feels so awful is just us realizing that the "bad" person is not living the life they were born to live or behave as their true higher self would.

[LH919]

At least you are asking questions

shadowvegan and challenging

the status quo.

And I was not surprised by your responses thus far

notice how most of them

are suggesting that you helping your friends

by protecting them and sending energy back

to person who is originally sending out harmful energy

is somehow not acceptable.

Go back and read the subtle manipulations you are being given...

if the 'bad' person is just living who they are supposed to be

then is that not true for you protecting your friends?

If everything happens for a reason then would that not be true

for your actions whatever they may be?

Please take note how these manipulations allow

and perpetuate some to continue to be abusive.

These manipulations occur on various other forms such as...

religious ppl who claim we have no right to judge

and that only god can judge...

or...

the new age idea that claims

that everything is perfect as it is

and there is no need to change anything...

well if that is true then so are feeling and actions

of retribution.

So is it wrong to act as karma?

Very good question and continue to question

the responses.

Even karma is an idea that is being used to control ppl

to stand idly by while abusers and manipulators get a free pass.

[ShadowVegan]

Thanks for all the responses, and L919 I agree with what you said, that was basically my thoughts before I even asked the question, put into a new light/perspective. If karma can act as justice, then why shouldn't we be able to? That said, I am still interested in peoples' thoughts regardless of which side of this debate they are on and I will consider both.

[grifftang]

the karma police can only do so much

go vigilante on that mothafucker

[LH919]

There is actually a pretty strong movement

here in this forum as well out in the real world

of 'conditioned complacency'

it works really well

in keeping the status quo

[LunarLotus]

I don't think anyone is telling him to be complacent, he asked what others would do, others have told them what they would do.

He ultimately has to make up his own mind what is best for him if this type of situation was to arise....and weigh his options and act accordingly.

[LH919]

No LL there is an obvious pattern

of directing the OP

to in fact do nothing

that somehow retribution

is karmically worse

than original acts of abuse against innocent people

I think the OP sees what is going on here

as do I

[LunarLotus]

Yeah, it's a big conspircy, we're all trying to manipulate him. You are absolutely right.

[ShadowVegan]

LH, I don't think other people are saying that justice/vengeance is as bad as the original wrong action, just that it's wrong. Some might say it's less wrong. I'm positive beyond a doubt that morally it's at least less wrong, if wrong at all, but karmically I'm not sure because I don't know enough about karma, that's why I want other peoples' thoughts. I feel confident about my moral beliefs, and that justice is morally justified. But is karma in perfect accordance with Moral Law, or is karma a similar force, that is parallel to Moral Law but has some differences? Can something be morally right/morally justified, but still get 'bad' karma?

As for what I would do, morality comes before karma for me so I would definitely do what it takes to defend my friends, but I'm really just curious if people think I would get bad karma by acting out of aggression/justified negative emotions like righteous anger.

But despite what people have posted I'm still with LH on this, the people in power (over politics, religion, and everything really, they probably even have a big influence on the New Age beliefs, etc.) definitely have a very strong interest in maintaining the status quo, and LH brought up a very good point that the whole 'eye for an eye' thing and 'revenge = bad karma' ultimately accomplishes protecting those who are in charge of maintaining the status quo. If people go around avenging themselves and harming/killing the people on top, that's what the people on top don't want, and by introducing things like 'pacifism' (which is really an oxymoron, unwilling to defend yourself? a bad guy's life over an innocent life? pacifism is not peace, it's apathy), 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind' (but if we don't take an eye for an eye, the bad guys can see and the good guys are blind) they can protect themselves from retribution of the 'masses'.

LL, I think you are missing LH's point, it's not that anyone here is trying to manipulate anyone, but rather that many people are manipulated by the people trying to maintain the status quo.

[LunarLotus]

LOL!

I understand his point perfectly. But you asked a very specific question, and then all the manipulators of the world are brought into the equation, making it more complicated than it has to be. I just have no intention of arguing with anyone, so I figured a little sarcasm would make my point.

Yes, the government, big Pharma...and many others want to maintain status quo....I think most minds on this site are well aware of how that stuff works. Anywho, I thought that we were answering your question, which was pretty specific, so why is it that those that are responding are passive-agressively being called manipulators?

I mean, geeze, you can't even give an opinion without someone of accusing you of trying to be manipulative? It's kinda silly.

But anyway, the decision will be up to you in the end, and everyone has to react accordingly to what feels right to them, because in the end it's the only thing we really have control of anyway. The rest is an illusion.

[LH919]

Actually we have a lot more control

than we realize and are lead to believe

And as for the rest being an illusion...

how so?

Because you declare it to be so?

I personally don't feel like

people being harmed

enslaved, murdered all over this world

is an illusion.

I see that it is really happening

to people who are human like myself

and I also see that claiming it is an illusion

is a really easy way to pretend that it doesn't matter

and gives us a good excuse to do nothing.

More landmines.

[LunarLotus]

ShadowVegan, it was very nice talking to you, I look forward to speaking with you in other threads, but I prefer not to engage with someone who is obviously trying to bait me into an arguement(LH919).

See ya around!

[Psychic Child]

Another point of view . . . Shadow . . .
There is the philosophy that believes that the only "Bad" karma
is inaction, that all karma are lessons to learn from.
By protecting
your friends from learning lessons, you are slowing down their
growth. I would suggest that you help them learn how to
protect themselves, so they can keep their responsibility
to themselves growing in a positive way.
Be in harmony,
be in beauty.
roger