#163
[QUOTE=serenesam;861020]"Lucifer is not evil he’s one of the Archangels, whose job it is to hold one of the poles. His love was so great that he was strong enough to do it. The Archangel Michael holds the other pole. They are both the same. (p. 52, Her Perspective, Alloya)."

Just gotta love the contradictions and paradoxes. :)

Then again, Dr. Doreen Virtue says Lucifer doesn't exist:[/QUOTE]

These paradoxes and contradictions on her part seem odd. What are Dr. Doreen Virtue's sources? Where is she getting all of the alleged information for her book from? Are these just her personal opinions? :confused: This doesn't make any sense to me either.
3 x

#164
tmt --

Why do you find it strange that Lucifer is considered evil and against God? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your viewpoint because I'm curious about a couple of things.

You said you are a gnostic. I think gnostics have some interesting views about God, though many differ from those of Christians. The world "Christian" was based on Christ. So, yes, Christ wasn't a "Christian," but His teachings are what Christianity is - - coupled with the historical events of that time and the faith He has instilled in many.

What is the gnostics' view of Lucifer? Who do they believe Jesus Christ was? What do gnostics believe brought evil into the world?

I'm going to explain a few things from a biblical perspective to help everyone understand the beliefs behind that viewpoint:

According to the Bible, God did not give Lucifer the Earth. Lucifer had freewill because this was something God granted angels and humans. Even though Lucifer was then a fallen angel (a demon), he still retained freewill because it was the law of God that all celestial beings, and human beings, have that. The reason being, without freewill, all beings created by God would not think for themselves. This is not what God intended. It was not part of his sharing divine love.

Unfortunately, Lucifer did not use freewill the way God intended, therefore he fell from grace. It was Lucifer's decision to do so, not God's. Lucifer wanted to be God, and because he knew he couldn't, he became angered and rebelled. He lured many other angels to join his side, and they fell from grace with him as a result.

Lucifer later became known as Satan. After the fall of man (the Garden of Eden), Satan took the earth of his dominion via freewill. Jesus died to give us the gift of salvation, but Satan still has freewill through divine law. We have been given a gift from Christ and must use it to resist Satan until the second coming of Christ for the final defeat.

What is your take on this? If you don't believe Lucifer is evil, then who or what is responsible for bringing evil into the world?

I have also interracted with Lucifer. He appeared to me in a vivid dream and, yes, was very nice when he approached me. An angel from God warned me in that dream that Lucifer was watching me and to be careful.

Lucifer asked me to join his side, and when I said I wouldn't and calmly asked him to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, he screamed in fury and sent a TON of negative energy at me, then disappeared. He then immediately sent about four or five other demons to attack me. I also rebuked them in the name of Christ and they fled FAST!!

I haven't encountered him since. I believe that when he found out that I knew he was deceiving me, he showed his true side - - evil.

I welcome everyone's thoughts about all I've said here.

[QUOTE=tmt;860936]I always found it rather strange that Lucifer is considered evil and against God. The true translation is Adversary, not enemy. That he can be so far from Grace of God and also given the Earth, God's footstool, for his dominion is rather puzzling, don't you think? I believe his 'fall" is part of a seasonal change, just like our fall/autumn. And even if he is an 'enemy'. Didn't Jesus say love your enemy like your brother?

I have interacted many times with Lucifer. He is a compassionate being about his Earth and his responsibilities. He calls me daughter, insisted on calling me that in fact. Just like every other being that I have met in the ethereal, he is much different from people and has a different measure, moral compass, than people normally have. I can see him as the "father of lies" because he is a "lineman" as I like to say, he actually does Earth alignment with the ley lines. I went with him once and was able to help in a small way.

One can interpret the writing of the Bible in the way one has been taught to interpret them, or one can choose to think out of the box and see things in a perspective that may be radically different from what the Church says it means. This is not an innovative concept, it is a view taken by many 'Christians' and has resulted in so many variations of Christianity they do not even recognize each other as being religions of the same faith. I read the canonized writings, the writings of other systems of faith, and I contemplate what I read within my heart and my own personal experience. I do not consider myself a Christian any more than I consider Jesus a Christian. I am a gnostic and I believe in a personal relationship with our Creator, his creations, and self. All systems of faith have a golden thread of truth and one is no better than the next. That is to say, one system does not explain and bring to their flock our Heavenly Father better than any other. I believe they all capture aspects and nuances of our Creator, who is a being really too beyond our concepts to begin to explain, let alone grasp in full understanding. We barely grasp the concept of 'brother' between races of people. We are nowhere near understanding the concept of Universal love which is the heart, in my opinion, of our Creator.[/QUOTE]
3 x

#166
[QUOTE=antiopee;861362]Love is the answer,trust me[/QUOTE]

Jesus taught us to love our fellow humans. He also taught us to discern evil from good, because evil and good do exist. God loves Lucifer because Lucifer is part of God's creation, but God DOES NOT love what Lucifer did. God despises what Lucifer did and the evil it has brought to our world. If God had wanted to, He could have decided to hate Lucifer, but God shows divine love so he allows freewill as divine law.

Lucifer abused this divine law and the principles of divine love. He separated himself permanently from God's love through his own freewill.

Likewise, we can use freewill to choose to separate ourselves from salvation by following Lucifer's path, or we can choose to honor divine love by following the path of God - - this is the path of Jesus Christ - - what He taught.

God does not want to see us lose salvation or go to hell. NOT AT ALL! But if we choose that path, God understands it was our choice. It saddens and grieves Him, but He allows us to choose our path based on divine law.

He sees that it was what we chose in life, and He will not interfere with our own choices. He hopes, however, that we will honor the gifts He gave us and choose life with Him.
2 x

#167
Bah Lucifer is just the Christian version of the greek Promotheus or the roman Phosphorus the light = knowlwedge or intelligence is not a question of Rebellion but one great faction of celestial people fall in love of humans and refuse the social hierchy creat by God or Zeus i think Lucifer is not evil just a creature tourmented by this desire to return in the gnose and love for humanity is for whats Promotheus is tortured by the eagle
maybe is existe a wars in Heaven

Image


Lucifer exiled of Heaven illustartion Gustave Doré after the novel of John Milton The Paradise Lost
3 x

#168
what is this good and evil malarkey?

there is truth and illusion, that is what Jesus was talking about

he flipped tables in the temples when he saw taxes being counted

remember he was one of the first occupy wall street protesters

anyone doing this now would be called an anti-social troublemaker

the only thing that has changed is the illusions and lies.
4 x

#169
If a person were to torture, rape and murder another person, would that be evil? Or would that be an illusion of evil?

[QUOTE=Lady Neptune;861429]what is this good and evil malarkey?

there is truth and illusion, that is what Jesus was talking about

he flipped tables in the temples when he saw taxes being counted

remember he was one of the first occupy wall street protesters

anyone doing this now would be called an anti-social troublemaker

the only thing that has changed is the illusions and lies.[/QUOTE]
4 x

#170
Gnosticism is different for every individual. For me, it is just the connection between self and Creator. I'm not really interested in the hierarchy of beings that are mapped out by the different interpretations of Gnosticism. I run into some of them on occasion and I treat them all the same, as friends, as brothers, not above or below my self.

Jesus is being used as the central figure in religion, not just to teach his words as interpreted by that particular system of faith, but also as a baseline of truth to place their own perspective on morality. The Christian faith as a whole is a schism of schisms, lol. Baptists disagree with Protestants; Protestants disagree with Lutherans; Lutherans disagree with Catholics; Catholics disagree with every other Christian interpretation and have systematically wiped out many splinter groups that disagreed with their interpretation.

Maybe you can tell me which version of Christianity has presented the words of Christ, the teaching of Christ, most accurately. :)

My point is religion as a system of faith has a deceptive habit of becoming the Faith itself. I don't have Faith in religion, I have Faith in God/Holy Trinity. I do not believe that any system of Faith, other than the heart of the soul believing/resting in God/Creator is the perfect system of Faith..

[QUOTE=Know the Truth;861335]tmt --

Why do you find it strange that Lucifer is considered evil and against God? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your viewpoint because I'm curious about a couple of things.

You said you are a gnostic. I think gnostics have some interesting views about God, though many differ from those of Christians. The world "Christian" was based on Christ. So, yes, Christ wasn't a "Christian," but His teachings are what Christianity is - - coupled with the historical events of that time and the faith He has instilled in many.

What is the gnostics' view of Lucifer? Who do they believe Jesus Christ was? What do gnostics believe brought evil into the world?

I'm going to explain a few things from a biblical perspective to help everyone understand the beliefs behind that viewpoint:

According to the Bible, God did not give Lucifer the Earth. Lucifer had freewill because this was something God granted angels and humans. Even though Lucifer was then a fallen angel (a demon), he still retained freewill because it was the law of God that all celestial beings, and human beings, have that. The reason being, without freewill, all beings created by God would not think for themselves. This is not what God intended. It was not part of his sharing divine love.

Unfortunately, Lucifer did not use freewill the way God intended, therefore he fell from grace. It was Lucifer's decision to do so, not God's. Lucifer wanted to be God, and because he knew he couldn't, he became angered and rebelled. He lured many other angels to join his side, and they fell from grace with him as a result.

Lucifer later became known as Satan. After the fall of man (the Garden of Eden), Satan took the earth of his dominion via freewill. Jesus died to give us the gift of salvation, but Satan still has freewill through divine law. We have been given a gift from Christ and must use it to resist Satan until the second coming of Christ for the final defeat.

What is your take on this? If you don't believe Lucifer is evil, then who or what is responsible for bringing evil into the world?

I have also interracted with Lucifer. He appeared to me in a vivid dream and, yes, was very nice when he approached me. An angel from God warned me in that dream that Lucifer was watching me and to be careful.

Lucifer asked me to join his side, and when I said I wouldn't and calmly asked him to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, he screamed in fury and sent a TON of negative energy at me, then disappeared. He then immediately sent about four or five other demons to attack me. I also rebuked them in the name of Christ and they fled FAST!!

I haven't encountered him since. I believe that when he found out that I knew he was deceiving me, he showed his true side - - evil.

I welcome everyone's thoughts about all I've said here.[/QUOTE]
4 x

#171
[QUOTE=Know the Truth;861434]If a person were to torture, rape and murder another person, would that be evil? Or would that be an illusion of evil?[/QUOTE]

the torturer/murderer/rapist is trapped in an illusion that allows them to lie to themselves and commit this act without any truth to draw them away.

later they may realise the truth, however within the illusion the person loses their understanding of real/not real. the lie becomes a dream state.
3 x

#172
[QUOTE=Lady Neptune;861446]the torturer/murderer/rapist is trapped in an illusion that allows them to lie to themselves and commit this act without any truth to draw them away.

later they may realise the truth, however within the illusion the person loses their understanding of real/not real. the lie becomes a dream state.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't referring to the mindset of the torturer/murderer/rapist. I was asking if the ACTS of torture, murder and rape are evil? The reason I am asking is to understand your viewpoint of this, because you said this in your other post:

what is this good and evil malarkey?


Do you believe evil doesn't exist?
4 x

#174
[QUOTE=tmt;861444]Gnosticism is different for every individual. For me, it is just the connection between self and Creator.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what Christianity is for me. It is the connection between myself and the Creator - - God. I believe in the Holy Trinity - - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Maybe you can tell me which version of Christianity has presented the words of Christ, the teaching of Christ, most accurately. :)


Sure - - if you can tell me what version of Gnosticism has presented the view of the universe most accurately. :D

My point is religion as a system of faith has a deceptive habit of becoming the Faith itself. I don't have Faith in religion, I have Faith in God/Holy Trinity. I do not believe that any system of Faith, other than the heart of the soul believing/resting in God/Creator is the perfect system of Faith..


I agree with you 100% on this point. That is what TRUE Chrisitianity is for me. A personal heart/soul connection to God - - the Lord Jesus Christ - - part of the Holy Trinity.

I follow the Bible's teachings and my own inner faith in God, and do not follow religion of ANY church.
4 x

#175
[QUOTE=serenesam;861452]Is there any karmic effect of being evil?[/QUOTE]

Yes. If one commits evil acts, they can expect extremely and equally negative consequences in return. If not in this lifetime, than most CERTAINLY in the next.

This is what Hell is in the Christian faith.
3 x

#176
[QUOTE=Know the Truth;861449]I wasn't referring to the mindset of the torturer/murderer/rapist. I was asking if the ACTS of torture, murder and rape are evil? The reason I am asking is to understand your viewpoint of this, because you said this in your other post:

Do you believe evil doesn't exist?[/QUOTE]

the acts themselves in my eyes are against what i think the truth is - which is that killing violence etc is wrong. no two people will ever agree fundamentally upon my beliefs, nor on yours. the "truth" is subjective and so is the definition of "wrong". culture blurs these lines. emotional points of view distort and colour perceptions. the closer it is the more it hurts, the bigger the lie the purer the truth.

I struggle to incorporate a single point of evil, yes i think it has to be definitive because it is extreme. the word "evil" is slapped on anything that people strongly dislike or fear, which is not the same thing. those are only a disharmonious sensation. evil I have saved for the day I meet someone that is permanently trapped in a violent distortion of their illusion (we all live in an illusion don't stress) where they are forever disconnected from any emotional or rational concept that gives this reality the sensations like pain and fear, they don't think like we do any more and have become automatic zombies. I have never seen real evil; which is not to say it doesn't exist. does evil require a rational consciousness? you see what I mean? hate - that is another illogical argument.
4 x

#177
I suppose somone could say the Internet is evil, when really it is neutral. Or that knives are evil because they can hurt people. But they are neutral in and of themselves.

But that is not the issue. The issue is that there are, like you said, definite evils. I don't know of anyone who thinks that murder, rape and torture are not evil unless they are psychopaths.

Then, in that case, yes - - they are trapped in illusion.

The "truth," therefore is that good and evil exist.

Would you agree?

[QUOTE=Lady Neptune;861466]the acts themselves in my eyes are against what i think the truth is - which is that killing violence etc is wrong. no two people will ever agree fundamentally upon my beliefs, nor on yours. the "truth" is subjective and so is the definition of "wrong". culture blurs these lines. emotional points of view distort and colour perceptions. the closer it is the more it hurts, the bigger the lie the purer the truth.

I struggle to incorporate a single point of evil, yes i think it has to be definitive because it is extreme. the word "evil" is slapped on anything that people strongly dislike or fear, which is not the same thing. those are only a disharmonious sensation. evil I have saved for the day I meet someone that is permanently trapped in a violent distortion of their illusion (we all live in an illusion don't stress) where they are forever disconnected from any emotional or rational concept that gives this reality the sensations like pain and fear, they don't think like we do any more and have become automatic zombies. I have never seen real evil; which is not to say it doesn't exist. does evil require a rational consciousness? you see what I mean? hate - that is another illogical argument.[/QUOTE]
4 x

#178
[QUOTE=Know the Truth;861489]I suppose somone could say the Internet is evil, when really it is neutral. Or that knives are evil because they can hurt people. But they are neutral in and of themselves.

But that is not the issue. The issue is that there are, like you said, definite evils. I don't know of anyone who thinks that murder, rape and torture are not evil unless they are psychopaths.

Then, in that case, yes - - they are trapped in illusion.

The "truth," therefore is that good and evil exist.

Would you agree?[/QUOTE]

there was a time where I'd have said yes, but now I doubt my assumptions.
perhaps to understand this you need to have experienced it, even for a fraction of a second.
it switches so suddenly that some don't realise how completely polarized they are until it's too late.
this is what 99% don't understand - both extremes "feel" right, the middle is the source of ambiguity.
evil is connecting to the ultimate source of natural power while simultaneously disconnecting from reality.
it's unlimited and knows no bounds; the essence of morality vanishes everything becomes pleasure.
there is no way to explain how good/natural it feels. i'm not being deliberately argumentative either.

so the old knowledge in me will just agree.
the perceptions of good and evil/duality exist roughly in the middle.
4 x

#179
[QUOTE=tmt;738398]:) I love Lucifer, he's so articulate and as they say: As above, so below. In my view, Lucifer incarnated as Nikola Tesla. Just my personal opinion.[/QUOTE]
You are right!
4 x
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