#101
serenesam;733074 wrote:I disagree. I see the Creator as being superior to Source. They are both in sync with each other but they are also different.
I disagree. Because anything you or I could think of, as "superior" is completely inadequate when dealing with the awesomeness of Source/God. What is "superior" to you is a mark of Ego (that we form as human beings). Furthermore there is more than one "creator" after Source, the Source split into three major creative identities some theorize.

Our multi-dimensional universe is but ONE of many

As for "Lucifer" it is not the "One Creator." Lucifer is the center-stage of our current cosmic configuration (solar system) and is the "central sun" that reflects/radiates outward and molds the lower dimensions of our known existence. It is an advanced type of Logos, if you will......but is by no means the Holy Trinity or anything near it, it is a conduit. The "reflector" of light from the Source

The Source is us. Freewill is just an illusion. There is freewill to a certain extent but at the same time, there isn't.
Yes this is a given.

#102
hmmm this is some interesting writing, some interesting stories.
not the way i see things at all!
but certainly some interesting writing.

lucifer is venus, the morning star/evening star.
there no connection, other than what has been "believed" or distorted, to any "him" or evil dark force....or whatever else.
except that earlier christian teachings rejected star knowledge and the old myths, twisting them into things other than what they were originally meant to be about.

the story of inanna, another form a venus goddess, is a metaphor for certain experiences within humans, and also a direct paralell to the retrograde cycle of venus, that turns it from the evening star into the morning star, and the overall pattern of venus, making a large pentagram....basically making a colorful story about the planets motion, and using metaphors to explain certain things.....
in that she appears to go into "the underworld" for fourty days (as venus does in her retrograde) and is renewed as the morning star, a goddess of fertility and abundance
The planet Venus has been referred to as the Morningstar or Evenstar for thousands of years. Because it is closer to the sun than the earth is, it can never appear very far from the sun in the sky. In other words, when the sun sets in the evening it might be in the west, near the sun as an evening star; or it could be in the morning sky before sunrise, again, near the sun. A Venus cycle describes her retrograde patterns that bring the planet into what's called combustion with the Sun. During this time Venus disappears from view on the earth for approximately 40 days. Many ancient skywatching cultures interpreted its disappearance as a shamanic journey to the underworld.
https://starworlds.blogspot.com/2009/08/ ... lness.html


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to me- there is nothing evil, or even satanic, or having anything to do with much of this stuff...its an old myth about a planet, associated with a goddess....a story meant to have some metaphorical impact about transformation....and whatever else i suppose anyone wants to interpret in there...even i guess including this.
so i guess i'll leave you all to your interpretations.... but theres defintely some mixed metaphors going on...

Lucifer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Lucifer (disambiguation).

Lucifer is a name that in English generally refers to the devil. In Latin, from which the English word is derived, Lucifer means "light-bearer" (from the words lucem ferre). It was the name given to the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, which heralds daylight. For this meaning, English generally uses the names "Morning Star" or "Day Star", and rarely "Lucifer".
The New Testament does not name the devil as Lucifer. Use of this name in reference to a fallen angel stems from an interpretation of Isaiah 14:3-20, a passage that speaks of a particular Babylonian King, to whom it gives a title that refers to what in English is called the Day Star or Morning Star (in Latin, lucifer),[2] as fallen or destined to fall from the heavens or sky.[3] In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the devil.

However, in post-New Testament times, the Latin word Lucifer has often been used as a name for the devil, both in religious writing and in fiction, especially when referring to him prior to his fall from Heaven.

#103


https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread569503/pg1

On with Lucifer! NOT SATAN, but the wonderful planet VENUS!



Since i have been using this site the last few months, i have been shocked at how many people are referring to Satan as Lucifer when the true meaning is the planet Venus.

London-born poet John Milton (1608-1674) in his story of Paradise Lost started this whole lucifer mess. For background, i would first like to supply this quote from wiki to let you know why the Jews were talking about the Babylonians:

Babylonian Captivity of the Jews

[INDENT]The Babylonian captivity, or Babylonian exile, was the period in [COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important][COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]Jewish [/FONT][COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]history[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] from the deportation and exile of Jews of the ancient Kingdom of Judah to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar II starting with the first deportation in 597 BC of the royal court and other prominent citizens and craftsmen, along with a sizable portion of the Jewish population of Judah, numbering about 10,000[1], and continuing even after the fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple in 587 BCE[/INDENT]

Alright, enough back story. Let's get to the Venus! From the book on the freemasons called "The Shadow of Solomon" by Laurence Gardner, i present the confusion of Lucifer:

[INDENT]The story of Paradise Lost concerns the heavenly revolt of Satan, leading to his fall from grace and the establishment of Hell.

There was a passage in the Old Testament book of Isiah 14:12 which prophesied the overthrow of Babylon's king, stating: 'How are you fallen from heaven, day star, son of the dawn!' As is made clear by the term 'son of the dawn', the Isaiah reference was to the King of Babylon, but astronomically the 'day star' or 'morning star' is Venus, which appears in the sky before sunrise. In Latin, Venus 'the light-bringer' was referred to as the lux-fer, or as it was more commonly written, 'the lucifer'.

What milton did was to treat this descriptive femine term as a proper noun in accordance with St Jerome's Vulgate translation, and as it appears in the Isaiah verse today). But more than that - Lucifer was aligned in paradise Lost with Satan.

Of Lucifer, so by allusion called,
Of that bright star to Satan paragon'd.

Prior to 1667, the term lucifer (lux-fer: 'light-bringer') had never been associated with a male entity - and certainly not with an evil Satan. Even after Milton's death, in 18th century dictionaries, the correct reference is given. For instance, the 1721-94 Nathan Bailey's Etymological Dictionary states: 'Lucifer - The morning or day star; the planet Venus, when it rises before the sun'. But, notwithstanding, following Milton's lead, Freemasons were now not only sun cultists - they were also satanists!

And so, from 1667, Lucifer became an alternative name for Satan, while its association with Venus, light bearer and goddess of love, was forgotten by way of clerical indoctrination. What is perhaps surprising is that, more than three centuries later, the Puritan view is still being expressed by a body of hard-line religious extremists. They pretend on the Internet, and in their books, to be investigators into a liberal conspiracy, but in reality they pursue a modern-day which hunt that accuses Freemasons of being satanists and devil-worshipers.

In reality, the 'conspiracy' is entirely on their side and it is they (not the masons) who cling to a medieval belief in Satan, making them so fearful of those whom they accuse.

The clear dishonesty in the Vulgate Isaiah translation can be seen from the word that was misrepresented as Lucifer. The direct Greek equivalent to lux-fer (light-bringer) was phos phoros (from which the Latin and English word phosphorous derives). Where this was used in the [COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important][COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]New [/FONT][COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]Testament[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] (2 Peter 1:19), it was trasnalted as 'day star'. This is absolutely correct; lux-fer and phos phoros are identical in referring to the light bringer (or light carrier), and the word 'phosphorus' is rightly given in today's Oxford English Dictionary as relating to the morning star. This was never a derogatory term, and was even apploied in relation to the Messiah (Revelation 22:16 - 'I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.')

But the original term used in Isaiah was not phos phoros but the Hebrew word Heylel. This derives from the primitive halal, and is used 165 times in the [COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important][COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]Old [/FONT][COLOR=#E0E060 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]Testament[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. Examples can be found in 1 Kings 20:11, Psalms 10:3, and Proverbs 20:14, and in each case (along with many others) heylel relates to boasting. Isaiah 14:12 should not read as 'How are you fallen from heaven, day star, son of the dawn!' but 'How are you fallen from heaven, boastful one, son of the dawn!' As the writer of Isaiah intended, this was a direct reference to the Babylonian king, and had no connection whatever to Venus or a light bearer of any kind. Not only was John Milton's misuse of lux-fer thoroughly ill-disposed, it was (as derived from the Vulgate translation) the wrong word in any event. [/INDENT]
I hope this helps clear up the whole Lucifer mess. If you see someone talking about Lucifer as Satan, i urge you to point people to this thread to enlighten them. There is a great mystery involved with the Planet Venus and if we can get past this Satanic mix up we may find the truth to why the ancient people were obsessed with this wonderful planet.

#104
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[/QUOTE]
The upper circle is the first world--the Divine Sphere of God. The triangle in the center is the throne of God. The small circles at the points of the star symbolize the seven great Spirits before the throne, mentioned in the Book of Revelation, in the midst of which walks the Alpha and Omega--the Son of God. The central triangle contains three flames--the Divine Trinity. From the lowest of these flames proceeds the first divine outflow, shown by two parallel lines descending through the throne of Saturn (the Spirit Orifelis, through whom God manifested Himself). Passing through the boundary of the celestial universe and the 22 spheres of the lower system, the lines end at point B, the throne of Lucifer, in whom the divine outpouring is concentrated and reflected. From him the divine light irradiates in succession to d (Capricorn), e (Gemini), f (Libra), g (Taurus), h (Pisces), i (Aquarius), k (Cancer), l (Virgo), m (Aries), n (Leo), o (Scorpio), p (Sagittarius), thence back to d. The zodiacal circles represent twelve orders of great and beneficent Spirits, and the smaller circles within the ring of fixed stars mark the orbits of the sacred planets.
Lucifer is the greatest mystery of symbolism. The secret knowledge of the Rosicrucians concerning Lucifer is nowhere so plainly set forth .., which virtually reveal his true identity, a carefully guarded secret about which little has been written. Lucifer is represented by the number 741.
von Welling also says that there was no material universe until Lucifer, attempting to perform the cosmic alchemy, misused the Schamayim, or the Divine Fire. In order to reestablish the Schamayim which Lucifer had perverted, this universe was formed as a means of liberating it from the dark cloud within which it was locked by the failure of Lucifer's attempt to control it.
The Pythagoreans held that each star was a world having its own atmosphere, with an immense extent surrounding it, of aether." (See The Qabbalah.) The disciples of Pythagoras also highly revered the planet Venus, because it was the only planet bright enough to cast a shadow. As the morning star, Venus is visible before sunrise, and as the evening star it shines forth immediately after sunset. Because of these qualities, a number of names have been given to it by the ancients. Being visible in the sky at sunset, it was called vesper, and as it arose before the sun, it was called the false light, the star of the morning, or Lucifer, which means the light-bearer. Because of this relation to the sun, the planet was also referred to as Venus, Astarte, Aphrodite, Isis, and The Mother of the Gods. It is possible that: at some seasons of the year in certain latitudes the fact that Venus was a crescent could be detected without the aid of a telescope. This would account for the crescent which is often seen in connection with the goddesses of antiquity, the stories of which do not agree with the phases of the moon. The accurate knowledge which Pythagoras possessed concerning astronomy he undoubtedly secured in the Egyptian temples, for their priests understood the true relationship of the heavenly bodies many thousands of years before that knowledge was revealed to the uninitiated world. The fact that the knowledge he acquired in the temples enabled him to make assertions requiring two thousand years to check proves why Plato and Aristotle so highly esteemed the profundity of the ancient Mysteries. In the midst of comparative scientific ignorance, and without the aid of any modern instruments, the priest-philosophers had discovered the true fundamentals of universal dynamics.

And here is the best one
Certain Rosicrucian scholars have given special appellations to these three phases of the sun: the spiritual sun they called Vulcan; the soular and intellectual sun, Christ and Lucifer respectively; and the material sun, the Jewish Demiurgus Jehovah. Lucifer here represents the intellectual mind without the illumination of the spiritual mind; therefore it is "the false light. " The false light is finally overcome and redeemed by the true light of the soul, called the Second Logos or Christ. The secret processes by which the Luciferian intellect is transmuted into the Christly intellect constitute one of the great secrets of alchemy, and are symbolized by the process of transmuting base metals into gold.

#106
Seems about right, as how Lucifer had the intellectual knowledge of Illumination. It would honestly not surprise me in the least bit, his intellect brought forth new knowledge not seen in this plane for a long time. And of course, the powers that be took much of it and hoarded it for themselves. But his contribution to the world still rings today :)

edited my previous post btw

#107
AmentiHall;738336 wrote:I disagree. Because anything you or I could think of, as "superior" is completely inadequate when dealing with the awesomeness of Source/God.
Yes, it is inadequate but I wouldn't say it is completely inadequate.
What is "superior" to you is a mark of Ego (that we form as human beings).
And the various degrees of Ego is carried over from spirit to physical and physical to spirit for some people, not everyone though.
Furthermore there is more than one "creator" after Source,
Those "creator(s)" are nothing compared to the Original Creator. Yes, I agree that we are all "creators", I even see ants as "creators" as well as fairies that deal with the animal kingdom.
the Source split into three major creative identities some theorize.
Yes, some theorize that but I disagree. I believe the Source split itself to infinity and continues to split itself further thus constituting an ever expanding Universe.
Our multi-dimensional universe is but ONE of many
Yes, that is true and will probably continue to form more....
As for "Lucifer" it is not the "One Creator." Lucifer is the center-stage of our current cosmic configuration (solar system) and is the "central sun" that reflects/radiates outward and molds the lower dimensions of our known existence. It is an advanced type of Logos, if you will......but is by no means the Holy Trinity or anything near it, it is a conduit. The "reflector" of light from the Source.
Yes, "Lucifer" is by no means the Trinity. As for everything else you say, I have no comment.
Yes this is a given.
Given in the context prior to the incarnation yes.

#108
cool picture amenti

but i still say there is no "he", tho it seems you all are talking about something other than "lucifer"- the goddess associated with lucifer the morning star is definitely female.
but yeah...its interesting the ideas and metaphors you are all writing about, but there is no basis for this in fact, imho.
as in it is not defintely this way, or this being lucifer...is this way. these are just stories, none of them says the only truth.
admittedly tho, it is this way, because you all have made it such- so this satan/lucifer character you speak of, imo, only exists in human imagination.
as do many things, and in a way they do really exist, but only as a metaphor.
which can be interpreted many different ways, or not even dwelled upon.
as in myself, i dont really dwell upon these things, they are just stories to me.

i personally dont go for the whole satan /evil /demons kind of head trip, and no offense to anyone, but its really a head trip from where i am seeing.

theres nothing inherently "wrong" or "evil" with our world, but people certainly make it seem this is the case, and continually push this head trip.
we never "fell" as a whole, there was no "original sin"...many believed this was so, and believed in this evil, and all this darkness, and added all kinds of metaphors and explanation for it...but this too is all stories.

While there are many correlations drawn between astronomical phenomena and ancient mythological gods and goddesses, there is no better description of a planet’s journey than the story of Inanna, the Sumerian goddess of fertility, love, and war (yes, love and war!) to Venus. In the story, Inanna initially a brave and brash goddess of love decides to descend into the underworld to attend the funeral of Gugallana (her sister Ereshkigal’s husband), expecting to return unscathed. However, her long journey down to the bowels of hell leads her at first, to a closed, guarded gate.
No one is allowed to simply enter the underworld alive, and if exception is made, they are never to return. The youthful Inanna will not be deterred, and is commanded to give up her crown in order to pass through the gate. After doing so, she continues down through six more similar gates, surrendering her jewels and garments at each until she stands stark naked before her sister, Ereshkigal, the goddess of Hell. Ereshkigal, with leeches for hair and horrid facial and bodily features, is the true manifestation of corrupted, ended life, fearful degeneration of form; the ultimate picture of death.
She shows no mercy to her sister Inanna, but has her skewered and hung on hooks behind her throne. It is only after some time that she is rescued with the help of Ninshubar (a mercurial figure) her assistant, who had been left with orders to come after her if she did not return within 3 days. Ninshubar had solicited the gods to help save Inanna and came with two newly created androgynous beings who so enamored Ereshkigal that she released Inanna with one condition: The first one to not greet her return with gladness would take her place in Hell.


As Inanna ascends she passes again through each of the seven gates where each of her items is restored to her. All rejoice upon seeing her except Dumuzi, her own lover, who had been placed in charge until her return. He was enjoying his new authority and greeted her with more surprise than warmth, resulting in the demons accompanying Inanna immediately tearing him away and stealing him back to the underworld. Inanna was both terrified and furious with Dumuzi as she was deeply in love with him. She grieved her lost lover thereafter and knew no joy without him. Eventually, Ninshubar agreed to spend half the time with Ereshkigal in his place so they could be united for half of each year to this very day. Inanna had descended into the underworld a young and daring goddess but returned a matured Queen of Heaven.
The ancients always began observing the Venus/Inanna cycle after her conjunction with the sun when she was first visible (10 degrees distant from the sun) in the eastern morning sky. This is called the heliacal rising of Venus and corresponds to her interior conjunction with the sun when she is closest to the earth, brightest, and retrograde.



This 584-day cycle that begins with the heliacal rise and ends with Venus’ interior conjunction with the sun returns to nearly the same degree of the zodiac every five cycles or approximately eight years.



The five points, or five cycles, create a perfect pentagram, which symbolizes the connection between Venus, the pentagram (ancient symbol for the human being), and the number 5. At the close of this article I have provided links for you to obtain further documentation regarding the physical characteristics of the Venus synodic cycle (as well as that of Mercury and Mars!).



Going just one step further, we can see that the heliacal rise of Venus will return to approximately the same degree every eight years. The Astrologer notes this cycle as a Venus Return at age 8 and all multiples thereof.


Shamanic Astrology tracks the zodiacal position of Venus at each of her heliacal risings creating an “overtone” for the entire cycle. In my astrological practice I find it valuable to know the overtone of a clients’ Venus (and Mars), and where she stood within her cycle at the time of birth, as well as remaining aware of Venus’ progress within her journey at the time of the reading.

We can associate the seven morning lunar conjunctions with the seven gates or chakras that Inanna passes through, with the first corresponding to the crown chakra (she gives up her crown) and the last to the root, or sacral chakra (she gives up her life). By using the ephemeris you can determine where in the cycle Venus was, in the underworld or at which gate she stood. Likewise, if you were born after the exterior conjunction of Venus to the Sun when Venus is in the evening sky, count the number of Moon/Venus conjunctions to determine which gate Venus was passing through at the time of your birth. Remember when doing this that the first Venus/Moon conjunction corresponds to the first chakra and the second Venus/Moon conjunction corresponds to the second chakra and so on. I encourage you to see which chakra Venus is associated with for your current incarnation and whether she is descending, ascending, or in the underworld.



there are many versions of this story....obviously, and many more interpretations. but that is how astrologers see "lucifer" as venus.


i was born right before a retrograde venus cycle, so i've done a lot of reading in regard to the retrograde venus cycle, and the implications... the mythic quest for inner exploration this kind of venus placement suggests. in my progressed chart retrograde venus is about to combust the sun, its the point where venus turns from the evening star into the morning star (astrologically, not in relation to any of this satan nonsense!). on a personal level this indicates my introversion,being that i need a lot of solitude, and being not a very good influence for my love life...well in a certain sense. better for love as a universal unconditional love feeling, not so good for my actual relationships, which are both and few and far between these days, and usually unbelievably intense and often difficult.

#109
[QUOTE=Windlift;738306]@blissfullheart your right heard and seen the same thing and many dont even know it .......

.................. were just fish in a fish bowl used for energy ........ rocks have energy ....we have alot of energy they just suck it right on out of us and go on and use some more humans reproducing machines!

OH my...... Gateway .... buttons are messing up.....gee wonder what else they create LOL LOL LOl inside joke... ;)[/QUOTE]

"We would say to you that every creation has a spirit. The energy at which one vibrates, whether it be a rock, a plant, an animal or a human, is all at different levels. But as with animals and as you can see with human training and human love, they can evolve beyond other lifetimes on earth. In plants this is often shown in healthy re-growth within that life. With rocks and minerals, there is obviously very little room for growth spiritually. There are occasions when such a form has been very prominent in life-saving matters for individual beings, as well as the other way around, such as rockslides, volcanoes, and earthquakes. These are all actions and forms of different energy vibrations. When, from events that seem beyond understanding, a plant, a rock, an animal has saved the life of a human being, it is reacting to a higher vibrational form of energy than it would under normal circumstances. So there are no coincidences in life. When you see inanimate objects saving or protecting the lives of higher consciousnesses, it is because within itself the energy has reached such a vibrational force that it knows it can be more than the rock, the stone, that each person sees (p 84, Afterlife 101)."

"Matter is just a form of energy that is vibrating and, depending upon the level of its consciousness, whether it is the energy that forms a rock or a blade of grass, an animal or a human being, depends on the level of energy that it will vibrate at that continues the extension of the consciousness of that form of matter. (p 112, Afterlife 101)."

"God is each and every item, each and every animal, each and every rock and tree, each and every individual being. God is in everything and everyone. The Creator has always been and always will be (p144, Afterlife 101)."

"Everything on earth is just an individualized expression of who God is, but the actions that individuals take are not who God is. That is the actions of the ego and personality of the individuals (p144, Afterlife 101)."

#110
another:
https://www.pandoraastrology.com/blog/ve ... s-darkness
What Is Venus Retrograde?
When Venus goes retrograde, she takes our hand and pulls us into the darkness of our relationships. A retrograde period of any planet is a retrospective of that planet’s themes. It is like going into the deep, dark cave of oneself in whatever area of life is covered by the planet that is retrograde. It is a time of moving backward, perhaps of going back to pick up pieces lost in the past. It is a retrieval, a turning inward, perhaps a letting-go. Since Venus’ domain is relationships, this turning inward will happen in that domain.
Inanna’s Descent To The Underworld
The retrograde journey of Venus is depicted in the Mesopotamian tale of the descent of Inanna. To the people dwelling in the cradle of civilization several thousand years ago, Inanna was as Venus is to us: a goddess of love, a beautiful goddess, a heavenly queen. In the tale, she travels to the underworld to retrieve her dead love. The underworld is ruled by her sister, Ereshkigal. Inanna cannot enter the underworld without dying, but a goddess does not stay dead. A goddess is immortal and so, after her journey, she rises, just as the planet Venus, having completed her retrograde journey, must turn direct and return to the sunlit world.
Inanna prepares for her journey by putting on seven things: a crown on her head, a scepter in her hand, a necklace, gems for her breast, a ring on her finger, a breastplate and royal garments. As she descends, she passes through seven gates. At each gate, the gatekeeper requires her to remove one of these items before allowing her to pass. In passing the seventh gate, she comes before her sister (think of them as two aspects of one goddess, light and dark) entirely naked and vulnerable. There she sickens and dies and her corpse is hung upon a stake. After three days and three nights have passed, she is revived and saved by the intercession of Ninshubur, a Mesopotamian Mercury. Mercury (Hermes to the Greeks), as messenger of the gods, is traditionally one of the few immortals who is able to travel between the under- and over-worlds without having to die to do it. The messenger-god sends two angels to feed Inanna the food and water of life. She is brought back to life and returns to the over-world, bringing a trail of the dead with her. The dead who return with her are not the restless dead, but those who died peacefully.
What Does The Story Mean?
Think of Inanna’s descent as a descent into deeper intimacy. She is attempting to bring her lover back from death and to revive her relationship. To do this, she must go into her relationship’s darkness; she must enter into deeper intimacy. This requires a vulnerability that she cannot comprehend at first, but learns to understand by experiencing it.
Inanna armors herself for the descent into the underworld. Her approach to the first gate is tinged with arrogance, but by the time she arrives at Ereshkigal’s throne she is stripped, literally and figuratively. She has no armor left. She is entirely vulnerable.
This tale is a classic one because Inanna’s behavior is so like our own, when faced with the prospect of real intimacy and the fear it brings up. When we go into an “intimate” conversation, don’t we gird ourselves for a fight we are secretly hoping to win? Don’t we decorate ourselves, hoping to charm our partner into agreement, or to entice them? Don’t we cover our breast, our heart, with hard armor in hopes that, while we may deliver a wound, we will escape without receiving one? We wish to make our point and to have an impact on our partner, without having to feel anything or make any change in ourselves.
Inanna shows us that vulnerability is the only approach that works when going into the dark places of love and relationship. If you find yourself in a relationship where you cannot ever be entirely vulnerable or your partner does not feel that they can be entirely vulnerable (at least some of the time), then real intimacy is not happening between you. Both partners must be capable of complete vulnerability and willing to stand emotionally naked before each other, and ready to let go of all armor, in order to reach true intimacy. At the very heart of intimacy is trust, without which a relationship has no foundation.
Seven Gates, Seven Sacrifices On The Way To Deeper Intimacy
Inanna must make a sacrifice at each gate on her way to the underworld. Each sacrifice has interesting possible meanings. During 2009’s Venus retrograde period (March 6 through April 17) I’ll be making one short blogpost about each of them. As I do that, I won’t be trying to interpret their meaning to the Mesopotamians who first told this story; I am looking for the meaning these symbols hold for you and me, today.
Her Crown
Her Scepter
Her Necklace
Gems for her Breast
Her Ring
Her Breastplate
Her Raiment/Royal Garments
Relationship Epiphany Day
During any planet’s retrograde journey there will be a day of epiphany. This day occurs when that planet crosses (conjuncts) the Sun. When Venus conjuncts the Sun, her symbolic proximity to the Sun will “shed light on” Venus’ domain which as we know is relationships. Look for an illuminating moment in your relationship journey on or near this day.

#111
Its ringing ever louder. :)

Hee hee, I hate it when you edit posts :) this one is a keeper; quoted for truth.

I've been asking him for a long time, but he would never confirm or deny outright. He eventually confirmed just recently, so I guess one could say it is his (Nikola Tesla) opinion as well. But then, one would have to take the additional assumption that I in fact speak with my Nick all the time and that my Nick is Nikola Tesla. *shrug* No skin off my nose either way :)

Edit: I see you edited to Add information, love that edit every time!!!

[QUOTE=AmentiHall;738425]Seems about right, as how Lucifer had the intellectual knowledge of Illumination. It would honestly not surprise me in the least bit, his intellect brought forth new knowledge not seen in this plane for a long time. And of course, the powers that be took much of it and hoarded it for themselves. But his contribution to the world still rings today :)

edited my previous post btw[/QUOTE]

#113
its not an association, it is the name of venus=morning star=lucifer.

i am not asking or even really caring if or what you believe, just staing this "he" and all the rest, is fabrication, myth.

sorry that you may see this differently than i ...and percieve i am asking you to believe something, i am simply stating that this whole lucifer thing that you seem to speak of as being "real" is just mixed up mythology- and not the proper name of what youre speaking of...

well what you are speaking i also do not "believe" anyway..however the cycle of venus is as real as it can get, and that she has been named lucifer is also real.
al the rest of this is just mythology

#114
leila;738668 wrote:its not an association, it is the name of venus=morning star=lucifer.
??? A name is an association. Associate means to connect or bring into relation, as thought, feeling, memory, etc. - https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/associate
i am not asking or even really caring if or what you believe,
Well this is a forum isn't it? Are people not allowed to comment? How can you post something and not expect to receive comments?

By the way, my comment was not just in direct response from your posts only.

#115
When dealing with the mechanics of higher dimensions and creation itself, when we speak in literal words, it is always a metahphor.

Lucifer is not a literal being of flesh and bones. It is more like a Logos, but it is a CONSCIOUSNESS so therefore, like the sun- is alive at a level that neither you nor I can truly fathom. But as always, we can observe the "fragments" or spiritual essence of Lucifer in the world around ourselves, including the many incarnates of Lucifers intellectual "light" throughout the ages. Just as we can observe, with a keen inner purity, the effects of Christ on the world...As the Cathars believed, Christ was actually a "spiritual body" but the person who incarnated was a physical representation of this essence.

As above so below.

The main benefit of studying the mysteries is one is able to see how the symbolic translates into a literal phenomenon. The above information detailed by others in the forum and myself is a testament to that, and both the Esoteric socities, AND the ancients were very wise to see the link. To me this is common sense. Some people believe that the Christ character did not exist and instead is metaphor. I say both things are true, just like the cross is actually a metaphorical symbol of many, MANY things, including certain star alignments in the sky, including the "crucifixion" of a man, and including how the energy currents in the body are "disfigured" into a self-expending configuration. The Crucifixion of christ also being the cruficixion of the inner christ consciousness within people, and "reflected" outward into the material plane. The inversion of man. Just as the inverted pentagram, can represent that among many many other things, including the fallen Sun, and the downward motion of the the manifestive properties of the material plane.

It will give way to people realizing that the material plane is a holographic representation of spiritual subconscious. And it is an immediate translation from one medium to the next. When we are in the material plane, everything is separated and appears external. So when we look at lets say, an entire solar system that actually might be the representation of "one consciousness" with many functions. Like our planet might actually be one organ with us and the animals as "organelles" (or in our case, bacteria LOL).

The truth of the ancient names, and philosophies, those of the wise ones at least (mayans, egyptians, greeks, romans, sumerians, babylonian, ETC) were always metaphors for literal phenomenon. Star systems, physics, cycles of creation, knowledge, and even alchemy (and some lost sciences) were represented by metaphorical creatures, beasts, demons, angels, gods, animals, so on and so forth.

They were wise and knew that the material (holographic plane) is encrypted, and thus they encrypted their teachings in symbols, in the same way the material hides the spiritual. This way, later on, it could be deciphered by those looking for it.

#116
[QUOTE=serenesam;738678]??? A name is an association. Associate means to connect or bring into relation, as thought, feeling, memory, etc. - https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/associate



Well this is a forum isn't it? Are people not allowed to comment? How can you post something and not expect to receive comments?

By the way, my comment was not just in direct response from your posts only.[/QUOTE]

well sorry i didnt mean to imply...well anything really.
i understand we are just talking here.

i more meant, i am not trying to turn you on to astrology, just explaining what the astrological reference was...
not trying to get you to "believe" something, just explaining the context of "lucifer"=venus
and yes in that way "associated" being that lucifer as a word refers to venus, but has been taken out of context to mean these other things.

well i'll...just be quiet now and listen more.

#117
[QUOTE=leila;738668]its not an association, it is the name of venus=morning star=lucifer.

i am not asking or even really caring if or what you believe, just staing this "he" and all the rest, is fabrication, myth.

sorry that you may see this differently than i ...and percieve i am asking you to believe something, i am simply stating that this whole lucifer thing that you seem to speak of as being "real" is just mixed up mythology- and not the proper name of what youre speaking of...

well what you are speaking i also do not "believe" anyway..however the cycle of venus is as real as it can get, and that she has been named lucifer is also real.
al the rest of this is just mythology[/QUOTE]

Leila,

Yes I have to agree with you about the planet Venus and its connection with the term Lucifer, it predominates much of the ancient thinking - and is found under one name or another in most of the Esoterica. I also attribute it to the planet Venus, and also into deeper levels of meaning. Each to their own, no doubt about that - the light that shines in the darkness.

Much appreciated your contribuation as well as that of others.

Namaste
White Raven

#118
He looks like a literal being to me and he is usually just that: flesh/bones and hair, no other coverage to him *rawr*




[QUOTE=AmentiHall;738739]When dealing with the mechanics of higher dimensions and creation itself, when we speak in literal words, it is always a metahphor.

Lucifer is not a literal being of flesh and bones. It is more like a Logos, but it is a CONSCIOUSNESS so therefore, like the sun- is alive at a level that neither you nor I can truly fathom. But as always, we can observe the "fragments" or spiritual essence of Lucifer in the world around ourselves, including the many incarnates of Lucifers intellectual "light" throughout the ages. Just as we can observe, with a keen inner purity, the effects of Christ on the world...As the Cathars believed, Christ was actually a "spiritual body" but the person who incarnated was a physical representation of this essence.

As above so below.

The main benefit of studying the mysteries is one is able to see how the symbolic translates into a literal phenomenon. The above information detailed by others in the forum and myself is a testament to that, and both the Esoteric socities, AND the ancients were very wise to see the link. To me this is common sense. Some people believe that the Christ character did not exist and instead is metaphor. I say both things are true, just like the cross is actually a metaphorical symbol of many, MANY things, including certain star alignments in the sky, including the "crucifixion" of a man, and including how the energy currents in the body are "disfigured" into a self-expending configuration. The Crucifixion of christ also being the cruficixion of the inner christ consciousness within people, and "reflected" outward into the material plane. The inversion of man. Just as the inverted pentagram, can represent that among many many other things, including the fallen Sun, and the downward motion of the the manifestive properties of the material plane.

It will give way to people realizing that the material plane is a holographic representation of spiritual subconscious. And it is an immediate translation from one medium to the next. When we are in the material plane, everything is separated and appears external. So when we look at lets say, an entire solar system that actually might be the representation of "one consciousness" with many functions. Like our planet might actually be one organ with us and the animals as "organelles" (or in our case, bacteria LOL).

The truth of the ancient names, and philosophies, those of the wise ones at least (mayans, egyptians, greeks, romans, sumerians, babylonian, ETC) were always metaphors for literal phenomenon. Star systems, physics, cycles of creation, knowledge, and even alchemy (and some lost sciences) were represented by metaphorical creatures, beasts, demons, angels, gods, animals, so on and so forth.

They were wise and knew that the material (holographic plane) is encrypted, and thus they encrypted their teachings in symbols, in the same way the material hides the spiritual. This way, later on, it could be deciphered by those looking for it.[/QUOTE]

#119
I have a stereo in my car an Infinity stereo and one of the features it has is to scroll the name of the artist/song during the music. For the past 4 days it has been scrolling "turning, love on Judas" although on Tuesday it scrolled, "turning, love on Judas and rock". I just thought about that as I was reading your post.

I'm going to pick up this book today, thanks again for mentioning it, Kri.


[QUOTE=KriTiKiT;731370]If your a Christian you might have been mislead that Lucifer is the devil... He is not, Lucifer is latin for "bringer of light" or "light bringer" the bible was written in hebrew 2,000 years before the advent of Latin. Second, Satans in the book of Enoch there are 13 different refer's to "Satans" ( a band of angels sent to tempt and tattle on man)...
Third.... I don' trust preachers telling me what I just read...

I would Recommend the book the secret life of Lucifer https://www.joeroberts.co.uk/Book_Covers ... cifer.html

also Judas got a bad Wrap, you should also check out the lost "Gospel of Judas" it's a real Eye Opener.[/QUOTE]

#120
tmt;740087 wrote:He looks like a literal being to me and he is usually just that: flesh/bones and hair, no other coverage to him *rawr*

I have no doubt, that he can manifest this way. Humans cannot truly perceive in any other way but three dimensionally- if he were to materialize to someone personally, it would be in this manner.

In my understanding, most angels and archangels are as radiating small suns, with outward radiance that people often see as "wings." it is through these "rays" that they are able to propel themselves through the various existences of other planes with ease. Oddly enough I have always thought this, in particular about our own "higher selves" and the new age idea of the "12" strand pattern. Which can be 12-48 or more substrands, this refers to "Rays of consciousness" which our higher, angelic selves posses.

Oddly enough, I flipped right on this page of Manly P Halls book today, which pretty much confirms my own intuition in my own mind (here is also the talk of Christ as a mediator a spiritual sun, not the intellectual and material sun, which I came to the realization in a bible study class around age 14, changed my life forever!)
The Rosicrucians and the Illuminati, describing the angels, archangels, and other celestial creatures, declared that they resembled small suns, being centers of radiant energy surrounded by streamers of Vrilic force. From these outpouring streamers of force is derived the popular belief that angels have wings. These wings are corona-like fans of light, by means of which the celestial creatures propel themselves through the subtle essences of the superphysical worlds.
True mystics are unanimous in their denial of the theory that the angels and archangels are human in form, as so often pictured. A human figure would be utterly useless in the ethereal substances through which they manifest. Science has long debated the probability of the other planers being inhabited. Objections to the idea are based upon the argument that creatures with human organisms could nor possibly exist in the environments of Mars, Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune. This argument fails to take into account Nature's universal law of adjustment to environment. The ancients asserted that life originated from the sun, and that everything when bathed in the light of the solar orb was capable of absorbing the solar life elements and later radiating them as flora and fauna
I don't like how he says "true mystics" but whatever. I wish I got to meet Manly P Hall, he was the shiznit! Lots of Masons i respect but this dude is like a man cut from the same cloth hehe :) Do you now anything about his death?
Some secret orders have taught that the sun was inhabited by a race of creatures with bodies composed of a radiant, spiritual ether not unlike in its constituency the actual glowing ball of the sun itself. The solar heat had no harmful effect upon them, because their organisms were sufficiently refined and sensitized to harmonize with the sun's tremendous vibratory rate. These creatures resemble miniature suns, being a little larger than a dinner plate in size, although some of the more powerful are considerably larger. Their color is the golden white light of the sun, and from them emanate four streamers of Vril. These streamers are often of great length and are in constant motion. A peculiar palpitation is to be noted throughout the structure of the globe and is communicated in the form of ripples to the emanating streamers. The greatest and most luminous of these spheres is the Archangel Michael; and the entire order of solar life, which resemble him and dwell upon the sun, are called by modern Christians "the archangels" or "the spirits of the light.
This is cool, it is also interesting that around this time there is lots of "UFO" activity around the sun, going IN and out of it! Of course to me, they do not look like UFO's, but rather conscious beings of light (some of them look like multi-colored orbs of many different shapes and sizes).

#121
He was the shiznet, Manly Palmer Hall. Plus, he were a stone cold fox with those huge soulful eyes. He reminds me a lot of you, Amenti, because you are such a prodigy of ethereal understanding and intuitive knowledge. I think his phrasing of "true mystic" has more to do with the time frame he was writing in - when everyone and their brother conducted fake mystical encounters and seances for money.

I see physical beings because that is what I choose to perceive, I think. It is really the perception of the viewer that designs the ethereal view. That is why you and I could be at the same 'location' and encountering the same entity and see the scene unfold with different components of physical/ethereal background. I think the core message relayed is what is really the important part of the encounter.




[QUOTE=AmentiHall;740160]I have no doubt, that he can manifest this way. Humans cannot truly perceive in any other way but three dimensionally- if he were to materialize to someone personally, it would be in this manner.

In my understanding, most angels and archangels are as radiating small suns, with outward radiance that people often see as "wings." it is through these "rays" that they are able to propel themselves through the various existences of other planes with ease. Oddly enough I have always thought this, in particular about our own "higher selves" and the new age idea of the "12" strand pattern. Which can be 12-48 or more substrands, this refers to "Rays of consciousness" which our higher, angelic selves posses.

Oddly enough, I flipped right on this page of Manly P Halls book today, which pretty much confirms my own intuition in my own mind (here is also the talk of Christ as a mediator a spiritual sun, not the intellectual and material sun, which I came to the realization in a bible study class around age 14, changed my life forever!)





I don't like how he says "true mystics" but whatever. I wish I got to meet Manly P Hall, he was the shiznit! Lots of Masons i respect but this dude is like a man cut from the same cloth hehe :) Do you now anything about his death?



This is cool, it is also interesting that around this time there is lots of "UFO" activity around the sun, going IN and out of it! Of course to me, they do not look like UFO's, but rather conscious beings of light (some of them look like multi-colored orbs of many different shapes and sizes).[/QUOTE]

#122
Exactly!

I have seen the mphysically too but sometimes they just manifest as symbols or other things etc. It's the same thing :) I just mean that such beings can choose to represent themselves in whatever means they wish.

I also know that there are many parts of the "Luceferian" collective, both human, alien, angelic, solar etc. And they are part of the same whole at a higher level hehe. But yes absolutely we see the way we understand, even some of the "weird" crap I've seen in other dimensions has to appear somewhat "3d." Because that is the way we perceive down here!

It's all the same :)

And yea Manly is the shiznit, I resonate lots with him. BTW long time ago, my mom might of thought I was the reincarnation of Krishnamurti (lol), because he died around same time...that I was born. Well..also lots of other little signs she was led to haha. Plus a similarity in the way we thought, even as a kid. A shaolin teacher I had once, who sort of developed his school into a "cult like" atmosphere (he was very powerful energetically), once came out and asked me about the Krishnamurti ordeal, and offered me to join his school and become a teacher (I was like, 17 at the time, scared me to say the least). I definitely declined..sometimes I still get phone calls to come back even though I live half way across the country now

To this day I'm not about joining any order or community which claims it knows better than others. I have done that in past lives- I have been part of many movements and other things and all that knowledge is kept inside of me, the knowledge I read here and there are always just "fragments" I need to awaken that previous life/ancient memory. I have been reading about lots of famous occultists in history to now, and I have great respect and feeling of familiarity with them, but I also feel like I've "been there done that?" Not in an arrogant way of course..I just feel its time to free ourselves of all morals and dogma.

.I found it interesting that a famous Mason LeadBeater adopted and raised him (Krishnamurti), because he was as a young boy one of the "few" who had an aura of no selfishness. Educated him in england and I'm sure taught him many esoteric things. Krishnamurti later renounced his affiliation with esoteric societies and Blavatsky saying that he did not want to focus on the external studies at all, but wanted everyone to be free from everything (including societies and structural thought). I did not know of Krishnamurtis connection to the esoteric societies until recently lol.... Pretty cool.

And yea those eyes LOL. It's like looking at Lucifer himself mwuhahahaha :)

Even As an old man though..his eyes were still powerful. It's no wonder conspiracy theory christians believe he is a "demonic" being, bwahahahah.

#123
I think his eyes are sexy, even as an old man. I kind of have a thing for old men anyway. :)

Leadbetter was accused of child molestation in his later years, he lost a lot of credibility and/or followers due to this stigma. Blavatsky was sort of an enigma, most of the other mystics seemed to find her vaguely disgusting or disturbing but profoundly accurate in her teaching. :) Sort of the devil we know, lol.

There are some interesting stories of Leadbetter and the guy that wrote Morals and Dogma whose name escapes me at the moment.

I agree 100% on the joining of esoteric/mystical societies for the learning, etc. Not because they claim a higher knowing but because most of them require two things:

- the members not disperse the information to the general public
- the members not read materials from psuedo-same groups.

These two rules are really the biggest stumbling block all ages; aside from war and fear I mean.

[QUOTE=AmentiHall;740208]Exactly!

I have seen the mphysically too but sometimes they just manifest as symbols or other things etc. It's the same thing :) I just mean that such beings can choose to represent themselves in whatever means they wish.

I also know that there are many parts of the "Luceferian" collective, both human, alien, angelic, solar etc. And they are part of the same whole at a higher level hehe. But yes absolutely we see the way we understand, even some of the "weird" crap I've seen in other dimensions has to appear somewhat "3d." Because that is the way we perceive down here!

It's all the same :)

And yea Manly is the shiznit, I resonate lots with him. BTW long time ago, my mom might of thought I was the reincarnation of Krishnamurti (lol), because he died around same time...that I was born. Well..also lots of other little signs she was led to haha. Plus a similarity in the way we thought, even as a kid. A shaolin teacher I had once, who sort of developed his school into a "cult like" atmosphere (he was very powerful energetically), once came out and asked me about the Krishnamurti ordeal, and offered me to join his school and become a teacher (I was like, 17 at the time, scared me to say the least). I definitely declined..sometimes I still get phone calls to come back even though I live half way across the country now

To this day I'm not about joining any order or community which claims it knows better than others. I have done that in past lives- I have been part of many movements and other things and all that knowledge is kept inside of me, the knowledge I read here and there are always just "fragments" I need to awaken that previous life/ancient memory. I have been reading about lots of famous occultists in history to now, and I have great respect and feeling of familiarity with them, but I also feel like I've "been there done that?" Not in an arrogant way of course..I just feel its time to free ourselves of all morals and dogma.

.I found it interesting that a famous Mason LeadBeater adopted and raised him (Krishnamurti), because he was as a young boy one of the "few" who had an aura of no selfishness. Educated him in england and I'm sure taught him many esoteric things. Krishnamurti later renounced his affiliation with esoteric societies and Blavatsky saying that he did not want to focus on the external studies at all, but wanted everyone to be free from everything (including societies and structural thought). I did not know of Krishnamurtis connection to the esoteric societies until recently lol.... Pretty cool.

And yea those eyes LOL. It's like looking at Lucifer himself mwuhahahaha :)

Even As an old man though..his eyes were still powerful. It's no wonder conspiracy theory christians believe he is a "demonic" being, bwahahahah.[/QUOTE]

#124
His name was Albert Pike, a great book :)

And I had no idea leadbeater was a child molester, maybe that's why he was attracted to a child without "selfishness.."

ewww *shudders*

#125
I have no idea if he was or not, but he was accused. We all know how accusations go, thanks to BM. :)


There was something I read at the Albert Pike funeral, a golden shaft of light came out of the Heavens as the speaker (which may have been Leadbetter) was giving the Eulogy. Hee hee, I love that you spell it right and I spell it wrong, the name I mean. :)



[QUOTE=AmentiHall;740264]His name was Albert Pike, a great book :)

And I had no idea leadbeater was a child molester, maybe that's why he was attracted to a child without "selfishness.."

ewww *shudders*[/QUOTE]

#127
I have also had several encounters with Lucifer. Actually, its been sort of a constant encounter. I've seen Lucifer (I've come to call him Luce, for short) as a large white dog. Every time I've seen the dog, it- he has smiled at me. He has solid black eyes that don't reflect light, and when he stares at you, its like he's seeing into your soul. It's very intimate and extremely disturbing. I saw the dog for the first time in my life when I was 12 years old and ever since then, it feels as if Luce is always with me, especially at night when I'm alone. When this happens, I can not see him, but I can feel him with me. I talk to him, usually not out loud, but we argue and talk about a lot of things. He seems to know everything that I say, think, do, or feel, so I can't keep anything from him. In order for you to understand why I've done what I've done, you need to know about my sister. She's 3 years older than me and she used to be my best friend. We were both raised in a small, hick/gossip-filled town. You know, the kind where everyone knows what happened as soon as its done. Well, I got out, and she didn't. That's only half the reason that we fought though. We used to be so close, like two complete polar opposite forces of nature. But we lost that because of so many things. A couple weeks ago, Luce came to me with a... proposition. In a nutshell, I could have that relationship with my sister back forever, in exchange for my soul. Now, you must understand that my sister is my best friend. Without her, I wouldn't have a chance. So of course, I had no choice. And guess what, my sister called me the next day. We've begun to work on our relationship. We're actually friends again. You should know that she's seen the dog too. I don't think she's ever had an encounter with Luce like I have, but she's seen the dog several times, and she knows who he is, just as I do. Kathryn does not know about my deal with Lucifer, and I don't ever want her to. Anyway, since I... for lack of a better term, sold my soul, I've felt the need to see him. The way I imagine Lucifer as a man is not how most people picture him. I picture him as beautiful, blonde hair, blue eyes, perfect in every way. Because he's the Prince of Lies, trickery. People are more likely to trust a beautiful person, and after all, he was an angel. So I've decided that if I'm going to "sell my soul," I deserve to at least see him as he really is. So if anyone has any ideas or thoughts on how I could go about "conjuring" him, I would be extremely grateful. I know, I know, it's stupid and reckless and could possibly cost me my life, but I feel like I need to.

#128
I consider lucifer as the being who sort of is responsible for "reflecting" the light (of the divine) into the holographic or material form. Therefore I even agree at that level, that he/she is in essence the prince of deception, as the material reality is a form of divine deception within itself :)

As for your story. I dunno. Could be a being who poses itself as so, could be a reflection of your own subconscious, or it could be a representation of Lucifer as you said. If you sold your soul, then good luck :( As important as your sister is, your soul is far more important because you will see your sister again anyways, you are immortal. I hope everything works out for you.

#129
I do often wonder if I'm crazy... if it's all just in my head. I haven't and won't tell anyone that I know personally about Luce, because I'm sure that if I did, most, if not all of them would think that I've completely lost it. Thank you for your concern. It feels good to get a response from someone that isn't purely critical. =)

#130
Well there are some things I've experienced that might seem absolutely insane too. I try not to judge, because we all see/experience the same kind of things differently. And who knows, Luce might very well be an entity connected to you somehow, and it is merely using the form of a dog to communicate or seem friendly. It is trying to trick you though, from my own opinion at least.

As for whether its all in your head, that is a tough one to discern. The questions you would have to ask yourself, is there a trauma or event in the past that might cause you to project this entity into your life? Is Luce really a representation of something within you, perhaps hurt, or repressed that you manifest in your life in order to make sense of it? Is Luce an excuse to deny something you did to break away from your sister? Or an excuse to reconnect with her? Did you have a dog that looked like Luce in the past? The strange paranormal phenomenon and "craziness" that many of us all share is often linked in some way. Our minds are interesting things :)

Remember to question things but don't become too paranoid. If you must try doing some spiritual work, try meditating, try being healthy, try finding a path to happiness. Don't let whatever this is, whether it is within your mind, or an actual entity, or Lucifer himself (luce also means milk in spanish BTW) fool you into giving your power away. Reconciliation with your sister is possible without Luce or any sort of outer intervention.

#131
When you can accept and love the part of you that is the dark as a creative part of your consciousness, then I will free you from my grasps and we will move together into the Oneness of New Planet. When you no longer look at me as outside of yourself, when you have pulled all the aspects of yourself into the fullness of your souls you will move in consciousness. When you can look upon evil acts without judgement, then you have truly entered the realms of heaven. I await you there. It is not about living your life without care or purpose. It is about feeling and following the intent of the soul without judgement.


so, let me get this straight, when we can view evil acts without judgement (or care)

we qualify for heaven.

so lets break this down further.

this guy is molesting a kid in front of you, but according to lucifer, this is just good and really just an example of the divine spark? creative spark.

the kid´s screaming and the blood is flying everywhere, but if you can look at this and not care.

(with cold uncaring eyes)

then you are worthy of heaven?

someone beats the crap out of you, making you an invalid for the rest of your life and in terrible pain and unable to do anything about it.

and its just a good thing? an interesting experience everyone should try?
at play in the garden of god?

comes to mind, dictators being a good example of this, always very charming till they start boiling your skin off, hitler a nice example, everyone just about loved him before he started his shit.

so, what i get from that story..

the devil is being freed by her love, but in his next words, its actually just a role he´s playing for god.
and then its actually his own invention and amusement park that he´s running for our benefit.
doesnt care about what we think.
but needs our love and attention to be freed?
its a grand role and so our misconceptions dont matter, but he´s here setting the story straight? (not the first one,Margit sandemo, author, was contacted by him 20 years ago or more, similar story)

sounds like he´s playing you, telling you what you want to hear, the story is inconsistent for one.

evil does not exist nor does it matter, just ignore it.

dont give a damn about the hurting.

and then you get into heaven.

(kinda reminds me of the saying" all it takes for evil to blossom is for good men to do nothing")

but of course im just misunderstanding the dude and projecting my own yuck upon him :)

..

sure. from the ultimate perspective, there is no evil, just experiences (with understanding, you dont hurt other people, only beings of low intelligence and empathy hurt others)

but if you take it that way.

then the next time you are hit by a car or something, lying there screaming with your guts out, or your baby burning alive next to you, screaming mommy mommy, help me!

everyone should just walk by smiling, thinking to themselves "that is sooo good for them,, yeah i can totally see the creative sparks, its totally like music to my soul"

cause you will be dead in moments anyway and a energy being again and totally fine.

:D

#132
I'm assuming that people are interpreting Lucifer and Satan as the same entity?

You know Satan has a first name, it's Sasha.

I wonder if anyone ever thinks that the bible was wrong? Or why people give it any creedence in the first place. It is, after all, just a book.

Written by men.

What would happen if the world figured out that Jesus was the bad guy, and Satan was just the fall guy? That Jesus had a grudge, and used Satan as a scapegoat for his 'story'....because they used to be friends. But Jesus did something really shitty to Satan...

I wonder if people would scramble and say, "Oh yeah, I knew that all along....sure."

I don't understand why people chose to take things at face value, instead of doing thier own investigation....and why people so readily believe something they read in a book. Is it because it's old?

I'm old....almost 5,000 years.....does that earn me 'truth' points?

IDK, I guess I'm just rambling at this point...but the intial post sounds like someone got scammed.

#133
That comes to mind Jesus said he die on the cross for other's sin. People, our enemy is within ourself, it is not the other guy out there. Jesus dying on that cross wasn't for the people with sin, it was for his own sin because he is his worse enemy, within himself. What people didn't know about Jesus was the reason why he died on that cross. It was his punishment just as god sets all punishment accordingly whether other people know it or not. For example, the guy that is in agony from a painful accident that cannot heal was not an accident, it was set in motion because of his sin in the past, it is his punishment call karma set by god. It is inescapable. My proof is Jesus never return because father isn't done punishing him yet. So yeah, there are some truth in what you say about Devil being the scape goat just as fabricating preachers. Sounds like I'm against Jesus and preachers, but I'm just being honest about it.

[QUOTE=1month1day11;789498]I'm assuming that people are interpreting Lucifer and Satan as the same entity?

You know Satan has a first name, it's Sasha.

I wonder if anyone ever thinks that the bible was wrong? Or why people give it any creedence in the first place. It is, after all, just a book.

Written by men.

What would happen if the world figured out that Jesus was the bad guy, and Satan was just the fall guy? That Jesus had a grudge, and used Satan as a scapegoat for his 'story'....because they used to be friends. But Jesus did something really shitty to Satan...

I wonder if people would scramble and say, "Oh yeah, I knew that all along....sure."

I don't understand why people chose to take things at face value, instead of doing thier own investigation....and why people so readily believe something they read in a book. Is it because it's old?

I'm old....almost 5,000 years.....does that earn me 'truth' points?

IDK, I guess I'm just rambling at this point...but the intial post sounds like someone got scammed.[/QUOTE]

#134
alan;791171 wrote:That comes to mind Jesus said he die on the cross for other's sin. People, our enemy is within ourself, it is not the other guy out there. Jesus dying on that cross wasn't for the people with sin, it was for his own sin because he is his worse enemy, within himself. What people didn't know about Jesus was the reason why he died on that cross. It was his punishment just as god sets all punishment accordingly whether other people know it or not. For example, the guy that is in agony from a painful accident that cannot heal was not an accident, it was set in motion because of his sin in the past, it is his punishment call karma set by god. It is inescapable. My proof is Jesus never return because father isn't done punishing him yet. So yeah, there are some truth in what you say about Devil being the scape goat just as fabricating preachers. Sounds like I'm against Jesus and preachers, but I'm just being honest about it.
This has been a very interesting thread....my point was....we all gather our information from written, word, correct? (may it be in books, or on the internet)

How much credence to we put in written word? It's all been compiled by men....and with that, we need to be wary of thinking that anything we read is concrete.

Tolkein said once...."I'm a writer. So I have a tendency to agrandize things...but in sharing perspectives, you take another's perspective and do your own research, go your own way with it....every writer colors their works. Claim of being unbiased are bafoonery."

I guess I'm an underdog kinda chick....and my experiences have lended themselves to that. Christianity did a lot of bad things to humanity...so in reality...who has the responsiblity of causing the most division?

Jesus?

Or the 'devil'?
(16) Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

#135
the light divides...

it is the emanation as well as the intention that establishes providence...

lived devil these are words created by men
lucifer an utterence that alludes to a principality ...

the principality... being that mankind is not worthy to love, to serve, or to save from itself.

the christ is the anthesis of this establishing that mankind is worthy to love, ot serve, and to be saved from itself...because mankind was created " in image as imagined from he that imagines all of creation.

So channel that principal and learn to your master or he that feeds you energy feeds you salvation, love, and service that promotes a providence beyond your own understanding....

My soul is conscripted according to divine wisdom... so I must leave this conversation accordingly...
You all have fun

#136
Jesus was not a Christian. His teaching was shaped to a religious system, as you said, the church leaders adding their perspective and interpretation to the work of Jesus. I know everyone sees Jesus as a peaceful lamb of God who complacently gave himself over to the nefarious deeds of the jews and society at large. I do not see him this way at all. I see him as a bad ass who essentially came to give the Jews the proverbial finger by fulfilling the law, the prophecy, and the covenant established with Moses. He met all of those challenges and when he gave up the ghost, he said a few choice words that were translated as "forgive them, they know not what they do." or something to that effect. If you read the canonized writings of Jesus, the scripture not included in the Bible, you begin to see Jesus as a kick ass dude that was very in your face with his way of being. He wasn't humble, he was honest. He didn't need more than what he wore to give his message. The one time he did need to pay a tax, he sent one of his bitches (I think it was Matthew) to yank a fish out of the water and pull a coin out of it. That's a bad ass move. Not humble, hell no! Over the top shit no one else could even imagine doing. That's Jesus to me. He's my backer and brother and I love him, just like a brother. :)

[QUOTE=1month1day11;860433]This has been a very interesting thread....my point was....we all gather our information from written, word, correct? (may it be in books, or on the internet)

How much credence to we put in written word? It's all been compiled by men....and with that, we need to be wary of thinking that anything we read is concrete.

Tolkein said once...."I'm a writer. So I have a tendency to agrandize things...but in sharing perspectives, you take another's perspective and do your own research, go your own way with it....every writer colors their works. Claim of being unbiased are bafoonery."

I guess I'm an underdog kinda chick....and my experiences have lended themselves to that. Christianity did a lot of bad things to humanity...so in reality...who has the responsiblity of causing the most division?

Jesus?

Or the 'devil'?[/QUOTE]

#137
There are many things I find very interesting about some of the ideas floating around out there about the Christian faith. And by "interesting," I mean puzzling.

This is my opinion based on things I've experienced - -

Lucifer hasn't been a benevolent being since he turned his back on God and fell from grace - - and that was long before the fall of man. Yes, Lucifer was ONCE an angel. He is now a FALLEN angel, and he will always be one.

Lucifer likes to deceive. In the Bible, he is called the "Father of All Lies" for a reason. He often appears to people and interracts with them in a seemingly benevolent way. He'll tell you ANYTHING you want to hear. The devil can make you feel love for him or give you "enlightening" experiences, like the OP describes. He will make you think he is your ally and best friend.

He does this, not because he loves anyone, he can't love anymore because he has willfully and permanently separated himself from that source. Lucifer DESPISES all of humankind. He tries to win souls over to his side to get back at God. Lucifer hates God and hates all of God's creation - - and that includes ALL of us.

If you are having benevolent feelings for Lucifer, please understand it is because he is trying to deceive you.

#138
[QUOTE=Know the Truth;860781]There are many things I find very interesting about some of the ideas floating around out there about the Christian faith. And by "interesting," I mean puzzling.

This is my opinion based on things I've experienced - -

Lucifer hasn't been a benevolent being since he turned his back on God and fell from grace - - and that was long before the fall of man. Yes, Lucifer was ONCE an angel. He is now a FALLEN angel, and he will always be one.

Lucifer likes to deceive. In the Bible, he is called the "Father of All Lies" for a reason. He often appears to people and interracts with them in a seemingly benevolent way. He'll tell you ANYTHING you want to hear. The devil can make you feel love for him or give you "enlightening" experiences, like the OP describes. He will make you think he is your ally and best friend.

He does this, not because he loves anyone, he can't love anymore because he has willfully and permanently separated himself from that source. Lucifer DESPISES all of humankind. He tries to win souls over to his side to get back at God. Lucifer hates God and hates all of God's creation - - and that includes ALL of us.

If you are having benevolent feelings for Lucifer, please understand it is because he is trying to deceive you.[/QUOTE]

The only problem with your advice is that you speak to others as if they hold the bible in the same regard.

To me, the bible is another book that lives on my book shelf. The stories it contains do not sway or influence me any more than Dean Koontz would. (but that is just me ;) )

I will ask you:

What makes you so sure? Because the bible has told you so?

Are you sure that the Bible is complete and correct in the information it presents? If so, why?

#139
[QUOTE=1month1day11;860814]The only problem with your advice is that you speak to others as if they hold the bible in the same regard.

To me, the bible is another book that lives on my book shelf. The stories it contains do not sway or influence me any more than Dean Koontz would. (but that is just me ;) )

I will ask you:

What makes you so sure? Because the bible has told you so?

Are you sure that the Bible is complete and correct in the information it presents? If so, why?[/QUOTE]

You asked an excellent question, and I hope my answer will help clarify some things about the Bible for those who may be wondering the same thing.

There is a ton of information about this topic, so I will try to sum things up briefly here. I'll break this up into numbered points to highlight a couple of things.

Reasons to consider the authenticity of the Bible:

1. Archeological evidence - - The Dead Sea scrolls reveal that a large amount of the Old Testament is intact and completely supports that which is in the Bible today. There is a lot of other archeological evidence, but this is one of the strongest pieces.

2. Historical proof - - The Bible manuscripts date from only 30 to 150 years after they happened, and more than 30,000 original manuscripts exist. About 30 percent of the Bible's contents concern prophecy - - foretelling the future. There are 371 predictions/prophecies in the Old Testament about the Messiah – - all written at least 600 to 800 years before Jesus lived and most of which were fulfilled by Jesus. Many of the stories and ALL of the scripts are verified by other historical documents of the same period, including much Hebraic literature and even the Qu’ran.

3. Cross-referencing - - If the Bible isn't true, then therefore, all historical literature written in the last 3 millennia must also not be true. But does this make sense?

I'd like to site a scholar here:

The late Professor FF Bruce, one of the world’s foremost Textual History critics (and a non-Christian) stated the following:

“The interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, especially when compared to the dates of academically accepted Historical documents such as those detailing Roman History. The last foundation for any doubt that the scripts of the Old and New Testaments have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of these works may now be finally established and proved, probably to be the most authentic historical documents known to man.”

As I said, there is a lot more information about this, as well as additional evidence backed by historians and scholars from varying backgrounds and faiths. What I've mentioned is only a few of the main points.

I hope this information has helped answer your question.

If you feel inspired to check any of this out for yourself, I encourage you to give it a look. :)

#140
[QUOTE=Know the Truth;860781]There are many things I find very interesting about some of the ideas floating around out there about the Christian faith. And by "interesting," I mean puzzling.

This is my opinion based on things I've experienced - -

Lucifer hasn't been a benevolent being since he turned his back on God and fell from grace - - and that was long before the fall of man. Yes, Lucifer was ONCE an angel. He is now a FALLEN angel, and he will always be one.

Lucifer likes to deceive. In the Bible, he is called the "Father of All Lies" for a reason. He often appears to people and interracts with them in a seemingly benevolent way. He'll tell you ANYTHING you want to hear. The devil can make you feel love for him or give you "enlightening" experiences, like the OP describes. He will make you think he is your ally and best friend.

He does this, not because he loves anyone, he can't love anymore because he has willfully and permanently separated himself from that source. Lucifer DESPISES all of humankind. He tries to win souls over to his side to get back at God. Lucifer hates God and hates all of God's creation - - and that includes ALL of us.

If you are having benevolent feelings for Lucifer, please understand it is because he is trying to deceive you.[/QUOTE]\

Alot of people on this site are about understanding these things, they are neutral and doesn't take sides which is ok, but it's basically an 'I dont care." From my expirence dealing with the unknown, the laws mentioned in the bible are law of the heaven, they are not man's law and only a few are able to follow them. These heaven law helps filter out the dirty stuff and leads a person to happiness, but I've spoken to several preacher and none of them can tell me where heaven is, thus their bible limited them. For example, don't kill. This is very true because if you can hear animal talk or feel their feeling, you'll feel,"It hurts." This is to the extreme, but it is true. Another one is hell, hell is real, it exist, it is a place to clean the dirt off of people so they can go to heaven. This is why you dont want to kill, rape, cheat, molest, violence. All of this has to be undone in hell before u can move on. For tyrants that has killed thousands of innocence on earth, they will be in alot of pain even after they are reborn several lifes; I know alot of people in this situation. Heaven, for sure has multiple levels, but i do not know its depth of realness yet because I am not dead yet, but I travel to heaven hundreds of time because of the work I do for father.

For those that do not believe in the bible, I'm not affiliated with any religion and not here to promote them, do you think these people would be better off without the bible? Here's one, I know of thousands of cases of animist that are tormented by the dead that converted to christianity and these demon/dead spirits has left them completely ever since. My thought is the Jesus figure is too powerful thus the demons/dead people can't come close. People addicted to street drugs that medicine or doctor cannot save or heal, converted to christian and through the good spirit, they have recovered completely and changed into giving goods back to this society.

This bring me to the conclusion that no matter how dumb or idiotic this christian/bible appears to others, people are more idiotic then it and really need it for guidance. In my opinion, those that follow the christian bible are good people and friends of mine. It was the christians and cathelics that brought many different kind of people to america to have a better life and a chance.

TMT: The muslim has their prophet/messenger, the caucasion has Jesus, the south asian has their buddhist, the Indian has their deities which I believe are very real, but the animist asian were not able to change or develop because your badass Jesus cut the wings of the son/prophet/messenger for this group while on his way down to earth. This group losted their kingdom/country because of this; now scattered around the world. Outside of america, they are mistreated and step on as the poorest lowest human group; not even considered human because they do not have a country of their own. The reason why China is red China is because they honor the red dragon. The red dragon is of earth and not heaven, it is violent and war like. This prophet did not make it to China to save its people which aren't chinese. This is why China is so huge; it is made of hundreds of group conquered by this ambitious red spirit dragon worshipping chinese. I know you have no clue what I'm talking about nor have you heard such thing, if you have the ability, travel to heaven through the huge heaven gate, there you will find your Jesus, not the shadow one talking to people on earth, but the real one. Ask him if this is true. I am just a messenger doing my job for father and this is what I found out that has been verified by many shamans since the time they lost their country/kingdom all the way up until now. These are shaman that do work for father, they are identical to saints, don't let the word shaman fool you. I ask a shaman lady, she is an oracle, why Jesus died on that cross and she told me, when father found out about what Jesus did to his other son, father was furious and punished Jesus on that cross. Jesus has plant and grown millions of followers on earth but he was not able harvest them because he is stuck in heaven doing never ending paper work at his desk. This is also punishment for what he did.

#142
[QUOTE=AmentiHall;729961]Yes it can go wrong, as it is right now. There is lots of effort, intervention and help, but earth may be a lost case :)[/QUOTE]

Yes it may be......a lost cause......

Whahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

#144
[QUOTE=tmt;860466]...I see him as a bad ass who essentially came to give the Jews the proverbial finger...

...he said a few choice words that were translated as "forgive them, they know not what they do."...

...Jesus as a kick ass dude that was very in your face with his way of being. He wasn't humble, he was honest..

...That's a bad ass move. Not humble, hell no! Over the top shit no one else could even imagine doing... :)[/QUOTE]

I'm with you TMT-- Jesus was Punk Rock ALL the way!

Smashed up temples in the name of the TRUTH and told hypocrites that they were full of BS.

I know what his "choice words" would originally have been:

"Get %$#@&# you ignorant #@&% I'll die before I admit you @#$%& were right."

hahahahahahaaa don't you love chinese whispers LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Yeah man, Jesus is my home boy. Heart of gold and not scared of a thing.

#145
Here is a great scene from the finale of Smallville between Lex and Clark. Yeah, I know Clark is supposed to be the good guy but anybody who has seen the show from the very beginning dating back 10 seasons would know that Clark has a dark side too even Lana from the first season stated, "I didn't know you had a dark side."

[video=youtube;Yx3jYanCfY8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx3jYanCfY8[/video]

#146
First things first - *high five*

[QUOTE=serenesam;860895]Yeah, keep working you slaves - https://au.ibtimes.com/articles/25271/20 ... ectron.htm[/QUOTE]

You see this shit-- that's order. That is born of light. The same BS that is messing with the natural way. Chaos/Dark/Lucifer/Satan would never allow this. I am sad that they are so enslaved by the light like that. The chaos WILL express itself, unfortunately this is one way.

[QUOTE=serenesam;860893]Yes it may be......a lost cause......

Whahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah![/QUOTE]

In the immortal words of Jim Morrison :

"You know the day destroys the night; night divides the day"

Right now the earth is in the suffocating and controlling grip of the light.
The dark is preparing to step in and divide the truth from the lies, Jesus style.

I have a whole other theory on this... it's got nothing to do with "free will" LOL.

#148
I always found it rather strange that Lucifer is considered evil and against God. The true translation is Adversary, not enemy. That he can be so far from Grace of God and also given the Earth, God's footstool, for his dominion is rather puzzling, don't you think? I believe his 'fall" is part of a seasonal change, just like our fall/autumn. And even if he is an 'enemy'. Didn't Jesus say love your enemy like your brother?

I have interacted many times with Lucifer. He is a compassionate being about his Earth and his responsibilities. He calls me daughter, insisted on calling me that in fact. Just like every other being that I have met in the ethereal, he is much different from people and has a different measure, moral compass, than people normally have. I can see him as the "father of lies" because he is a "lineman" as I like to say, he actually does Earth alignment with the ley lines. I went with him once and was able to help in a small way.

One can interpret the writing of the Bible in the way one has been taught to interpret them, or one can choose to think out of the box and see things in a perspective that may be radically different from what the Church says it means. This is not an innovative concept, it is a view taken by many 'Christians' and has resulted in so many variations of Christianity they do not even recognize each other as being religions of the same faith. I read the canonized writings, the writings of other systems of faith, and I contemplate what I read within my heart and my own personal experience. I do not consider myself a Christian any more than I consider Jesus a Christian. I am a gnostic and I believe in a personal relationship with our Creator, his creations, and self. All systems of faith have a golden thread of truth and one is no better than the next. That is to say, one system does not explain and bring to their flock our Heavenly Father better than any other. I believe they all capture aspects and nuances of our Creator, who is a being really too beyond our concepts to begin to explain, let alone grasp in full understanding. We barely grasp the concept of 'brother' between races of people. We are nowhere near understanding the concept of Universal love which is the heart, in my opinion, of our Creator.

[QUOTE=Know the Truth;860781]There are many things I find very interesting about some of the ideas floating around out there about the Christian faith. And by "interesting," I mean puzzling.

This is my opinion based on things I've experienced - -

Lucifer hasn't been a benevolent being since he turned his back on God and fell from grace - - and that was long before the fall of man. Yes, Lucifer was ONCE an angel. He is now a FALLEN angel, and he will always be one.

Lucifer likes to deceive. In the Bible, he is called the "Father of All Lies" for a reason. He often appears to people and interracts with them in a seemingly benevolent way. He'll tell you ANYTHING you want to hear. The devil can make you feel love for him or give you "enlightening" experiences, like the OP describes. He will make you think he is your ally and best friend.

He does this, not because he loves anyone, he can't love anymore because he has willfully and permanently separated himself from that source. Lucifer DESPISES all of humankind. He tries to win souls over to his side to get back at God. Lucifer hates God and hates all of God's creation - - and that includes ALL of us.

If you are having benevolent feelings for Lucifer, please understand it is because he is trying to deceive you.[/QUOTE]

#150
The Muslims believe in Jesus, they see him as a messenger/prophet and they venerate his mother. They have their views based on Mohammed, their own choice being that they use to build their system of faith. I always thought it interesting that Mohammed was taught by memorization of the Quran because he was illiterate. The angel that taught him was said to be Gabriel and everytime Mohammed was incorrect in his recitation of the words, Gabriel would hit him in the face. Talk about your tough teachers, sheesh. I don't know how hard an angel can hit but I imagine it was a memorable smack. I mean, he did get Mohammed to learn the text verbatim No easy feat, Muslims constantly read that book to learn it by heart all their lives.

Jesus was not punished on the cross, he fulfilled the work of his father and that was part of the work he had to do. Do you really think he couldn't have intervened on his own behalf? He is the word made flesh and he could care less if people want to talk the walk or walk the talk. He did what he needed to do and in doing so, created a situation that allowed all people a doorway to the Heavens. The real reason he came was to liberate the patriarchs and prophets of the Jewish faith from Hades. He was able to accomplish that task by the cross, not the form of death but by the actions that brought an innocent man to be on the cross for the sole purpose of relieving themselves of their responsibility to their own transgressions. That is why Pilate was so careful to make it known he was not in agreement with the allegations or the outcome of the trial of Jesus.

Jesus is not stuck in Heaven doing paperwork, lol. He tells me, he is retired and does whatever he wants with his time. He has his own interests and endeavors beyond humanity, believe me. We are not his concern. Sin is off the table, we choose our own reward by our own actions and beliefs. There Ten Commandments are irrelevant, as they were part of the covenant of Moses and Creator. Jesus brought in the New and Everlasting Covenant which only carries one law: Love.

[QUOTE=alan;860885]\

Alot of people on this site are about understanding these things, they are neutral and doesn't take sides which is ok, but it's basically an 'I dont care." From my expirence dealing with the unknown, the laws mentioned in the bible are law of the heaven, they are not man's law and only a few are able to follow them. These heaven law helps filter out the dirty stuff and leads a person to happiness, but I've spoken to several preacher and none of them can tell me where heaven is, thus their bible limited them. For example, don't kill. This is very true because if you can hear animal talk or feel their feeling, you'll feel,"It hurts." This is to the extreme, but it is true. Another one is hell, hell is real, it exist, it is a place to clean the dirt off of people so they can go to heaven. This is why you dont want to kill, rape, cheat, molest, violence. All of this has to be undone in hell before u can move on. For tyrants that has killed thousands of innocence on earth, they will be in alot of pain even after they are reborn several lifes; I know alot of people in this situation. Heaven, for sure has multiple levels, but i do not know its depth of realness yet because I am not dead yet, but I travel to heaven hundreds of time because of the work I do for father.

For those that do not believe in the bible, I'm not affiliated with any religion and not here to promote them, do you think these people would be better off without the bible? Here's one, I know of thousands of cases of animist that are tormented by the dead that converted to christianity and these demon/dead spirits has left them completely ever since. My thought is the Jesus figure is too powerful thus the demons/dead people can't come close. People addicted to street drugs that medicine or doctor cannot save or heal, converted to christian and through the good spirit, they have recovered completely and changed into giving goods back to this society.

This bring me to the conclusion that no matter how dumb or idiotic this christian/bible appears to others, people are more idiotic then it and really need it for guidance. In my opinion, those that follow the christian bible are good people and friends of mine. It was the christians and cathelics that brought many different kind of people to america to have a better life and a chance.

TMT: The muslim has their prophet/messenger, the caucasion has Jesus, the south asian has their buddhist, the Indian has their deities which I believe are very real, but the animist asian were not able to change or develop because your badass Jesus cut the wings of the son/prophet/messenger for this group while on his way down to earth. This group losted their kingdom/country because of this; now scattered around the world. Outside of america, they are mistreated and step on as the poorest lowest human group; not even considered human because they do not have a country of their own. The reason why China is red China is because they honor the red dragon. The red dragon is of earth and not heaven, it is violent and war like. This prophet did not make it to China to save its people which aren't chinese. This is why China is so huge; it is made of hundreds of group conquered by this ambitious red spirit dragon worshipping chinese. I know you have no clue what I'm talking about nor have you heard such thing, if you have the ability, travel to heaven through the huge heaven gate, there you will find your Jesus, not the shadow one talking to people on earth, but the real one. Ask him if this is true. I am just a messenger doing my job for father and this is what I found out that has been verified by many shamans since the time they lost their country/kingdom all the way up until now. These are shaman that do work for father, they are identical to saints, don't let the word shaman fool you. I ask a shaman lady, she is an oracle, why Jesus died on that cross and she told me, when father found out about what Jesus did to his other son, father was furious and punished Jesus on that cross. Jesus has plant and grown millions of followers on earth but he was not able harvest them because he is stuck in heaven doing never ending paper work at his desk. This is also punishment for what he did.[/QUOTE]
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