MIGRANTS

#1
Like everyone else I have been watching what has been happening with the migrants. I can't for the life of me imagine being in the same situation (there for the grace of god, go I )
To have to flee your home with just the shirt on your back and then risk your life in a boat that is over crowded and unsafe to reach sanctuary, fleeing from a war that you cannot stop or do anything about. Hundreds of these people have drowned during this effort to reach safety.
I do not know what the answer to the crisis is but I think it is a problem for all of humanity, not just the people fleeing, we are all humans together.

LOve cheeneka x
:cloudh

Re: MIGRANTS

#2
I just try to walk a mile in someone else's shoes sometimes.

The world we know changes because of war, it has always been that way.

I believe the world will be the way it is meant to be. Maybe it is time that the first world countries had a share of the spoils.

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#3
The way i see it, when large area are in such state, it already impact in itself world economy, currently the whole area between iraq, syria etc is not really exploitable financially, or at very low rate, all infrastructure are gone, government are gone, necessarily it lower the economic resource of the world economy, and it mean the part of the world that are not affected will have to produce more to compensate for this loss and keep up with the demography.

But this migrant thing is not new either, at least for countries like france & uk, immigration like this has been going on for decade, what germany is doing now to encourage immigration to have young work force is what france did in the 70's, and they specially imported lot of population from rural place who were not very developed, and there has been a refugee crisis like this with the spanish in the 30's , it was same deal with refugee camps and the whole racism & all, same with italian, after there has been the algerian etc each time it was hundred of thousand of persons fleeing war & oppression, it's not a new thing, and there always been lot of fear and disdain for all those immigrants in that time, even if the situation was very tough too, my gran father he ended in prison camp, they had to do either forced labor or military service for the nazi under petain during the collaboration in france, lot of them were also executed etc it was same crisis at the end of the algeria war in the 60's.

The thing that is see the more is that this time the syrian refugee won't accept a second class citizenship, and i see lot of european people saying like they have cell phones, they look healthy, have good clothes, modern bags etc like if they expect to see some savages or people coming from the pampa in the desert, or used to standard of life of living in tents, or in rudimentary condition like it can be in the magreb or in some place in africa, but here it's not really the case, and it's changing lot of people view on the subconscious idea that the occident is so advanced compared to other countries, whereas today it's only true for a small elite of people in europe, and the same that are critized already for a while at least since the crisis in 2007 and occupy wall street and anti 1% etc, and migrants they have GPS, and use google map, they have money, they are probably more reactive and smarter than the average police force, and lot of people feel a bit threatened in their image to see that some war refugee that are usually associated with second class citizen and not developped are maybe more developed than the average citizen because it's mostly the middle class that is really fleeing to come in europe, in order to do studies and engage in the economy etc and it threaten a bit some people identity, specially in france but seems also in germany and most country, which is result also of lot of background in education and how the media are always focused on europe and often polluted with lot of nationalist propaganda, and people in the end are not that much cultivated and aware of what's going on in those country, they only hear of it in the media since the 9/11 and through lot of anti muslim/anti immigrant propaganda, but it's something that has been going for much longer time in countries like france & uk and probably germany too even if it's lessd visible.

And also it's clear with the crisis, there is already lot of unemployement in many european country, in france it's around 20% but it's not evenly distributed and some area have 50/60% of unemployment, lot of poverty already, lot of homeless people, it's clear lot of people are wondering how they can pull out housing for 24 000 people where lot of people are waiting for one from the government for years, and why there is not so much energy put in helping already people who are poor and homeless in france who are already waiting for maybe 10 year or more, it's clear lot of turmoil will happen with this, lot of people will have to face a certain number of reality that they are not used to be told. Like when you say that education in france is getting not that good, you can't say this without being told go back to your country if you're not happy, people do not want to face that they are not at the good level anymore, and no polician really want to say this either because it would be very unpopular, but more and more they will have to face this reality and that they are not going to keep being the top leader of the world just because they are white and catholics and expecting that all help of the world is due to them over other persons, who can potentially be more competitive and actually more educated in are of interest for the economy and more motivated than europe population who is used to be lazy and everything coming from help of europe or government, anyway even with the financial mathematics it can't really keep going like this, and lot of people in europe know that this change will not be in their interest compared to the status they have at the moment.

The only real solution is beat bachar & keep daesh at bay, but with putin who want to shoot anti bachar oppositions, it's getting complicated to see a positive outcome to the situation in syria for the people who are fleeing bachar.

Re: MIGRANTS

#4
https://news.vice.com/video/libyas-migr ... ull-length

Libya’s Migrant Trade: Europe or Die (Full Length)
September 17, 2015 | 5:40 pm

In a desperate bid to seek a better life in Europe, thousands of refugees and migrants leave the shores of Libya and cross the perilous Mediterranean Sea every month. Over 2,000 people have died making the journey in 2015 alone.

The routes to and journey through Libya are also dangerous, however, and since the fall of Muammar Qaddafi in 2011, the country has struggled to achieve and maintain stability. Porous desert borders, rival fighters, and weak governance have left much of Libya in complete chaos.

With militias controlling large swathes of land, their attentions have turned to the people that cross their territories. The fighters assert they are bringing order to the country as they detain the refugees, yet these people's lives have become valuable commodities to the militias as they try to solidify their positions in the country.

VICE News secured exclusive access to a camp outside Tripoli, run by a militia that has seized hundreds of migrants. Food is scarce, dehydration and disease is rife, and control comes in the form of whips and warning shots. The militia claims to have the migrants' interests at heart, but what emerges is a very different story.

https://news.vice.com/video/seeking-ref ... dispatch-1

Seeking Refuge in Europe: Breaking Borders (Dispatch 1)
September 11, 2015 | 11:00 am
As the migrant crisis continues to grip Europe, tens of thousands of refugees have made their way to Hungary, largely in the hope of then traveling on to Germany.
Germany is expected to accept 800,000 asylum seekers this year, but Chancellor Angela Merkel has urged fellow European leaders to offer more help in solving the crisis, and has proposed introducing a quota system, which would see refugees distributed among other European Union states.
Other countries have tried to stop the flow of people, including Denmark, which recently suspended all rail links with Germany. Hungary initially denied the migrants' passage, yet authorities have now begun to allow those who wish to seek asylum in other nations to do so.
A large cross section of society, often encompassing three generations of one family, has left everything behind in countries destroyed by war and conflict in a desperate bid for security and safety in Europe.
VICE News joins refugees as they make the train journey from Hungary's capital city of Budapest in the hope of starting a new life.

Re: MIGRANTS

#5
just heard the British Home secretary give a speech saying countries cannot cope with the level of refugees.

She says the hospitals, schools and housing etc etc can't cope and that what is happening is that English people who have been on a waiting list for a house are being sent to the bottom of the list in favour of refugees this in turn is turning to anger towards the refugees.

I don't know where it will all end......

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#6
In france it's long time we have housing problems, and real estate keep high because of tourism and nice place that can have some value for vacation houses or other, even in paris it's very hard to find a flat, even very little, and not all cities have followed quota of social housing, and there is clearly a lack for housing, it's known for a least a decade if not more, our current president wanted to build many, and force more cities to build low income area, it's not very clear what has been done in those area past 10/20 year, now i think they are taking the problem more seriously, but it's clear in france there is less and less room for cheap housing and low living, unless on government help, there are already problems with roms camps, and with migrants to uk in north, and it's a bit weird to see government refusing help to many people and having plenty of resource available for this, in the same time i can understand it's also matter of administrative criteria and some refugee come up as better candidate for those housing than some german or french people, but the capacity of european government to deal with low income housing in france is rather bad, in germany for this it's better i think cause they have plenty of cheap housing in berlin and in some places, but it's hard to see how it can work out well as they are already in policy of austerity and less government help that is already getting in very low in some country, and adding dizains or hundred of people who will be directly in the middle of those category, it's hard to see how it can all work out, like in greece they already hit badly with austerity, there is not even health care for the people who are already there, so not sure how they are supposed to handle tens of thousand of migrant often in bad health condition, and pull up all this integration policy in the middle of austerity, it's hard to see this working out well lol It's hard to understand how germany wanted to leave greece out of the euro and making them basically in same status, and they are out of also dictactorship, and then with syria it's open border, it's hard to understand this logic sometime lol

Re: MIGRANTS

#8
I am not quite clear at what you are saying IS37(hope you don't mind the abbreviation...that's as long a name as mine...lol)
I see it as a continued genocide which has been taking place for over 500 years.
Who are you speaking of when you say first world people?
Kchi Migwech Gzheminido Kinagego
Image

Re: MIGRANTS

#12
makwaiskwew wrote:maybe quit bombing the fuck out of their countries might help with the problem.
Leaving bashar & deash and all this in the area is not very good either. There is no more bombing in lybia for a while, or in egypt, there are still many problems there.

Re: MIGRANTS

#13
Not sure if it's really being lazy, but globally lack of initiative and responsability, idk it appeared to me clearly since i started to work in paris and see how all this system works from the perspective of few ladder up closer to big fishes, in most companies in paris it's the same, people never want to learn anything, at the company of my sister it's like this too, she is the only one who make everything works, to the point last time the boss was even blaming her for something that has been done when she was in vacation, and something that she is not even supposed to do to begin with, but all the other they are just waiting there that everything get done and get the credit for it

At the company i worked when i first got in paris it was the same, the only who was really competent and really working was a chinese, the boss he was white and doing nothing, the other had share he was playing video game all day and just doing some quick 3D logo there & there, my friend who was arab people were constantly mocking them, which was specially akward for me cause it's him who got me there, it was really weird to me it's why i fled this world of parisian companies because it's really unhealthy those place, i can't stand this athmosphere lol it's like they expect everything is due to them.

it's same issue with air france at the moment, and farmers, post service, train, and it's in large part middle class and higher middle class people, once something get wrong, that they don't get enough money, reflex is blaming government, europe, some politicians, doing strike, often violent, and expect that it will turn more government favor to them, like the kind of political black mail with national front, whereas what happen on the commercial side is clearly loss of credibility, with all the strikes and all it's loss of reputation of reliability, result the service get very bad reputation, and they still want to have the highest status & all, but both air france and french farmer they still have among the best status in the world, the common farming pact from eu, with a country in peace, they have all good infrastructure and governments who have always upper hands in all negociations, and they always wait from some hierarchy or government to garantee them everything, and want to do less and less in exchange for it because it's sort of due to them.

Whereas for all the rest of people they all the time see it completely the other way around and that everything will be more refused to them because they are not 'blue white red' enough as it was wrote in the database of the national employment service some years ago, same for renting, same for knowing the good schools and good sub sections and being oriented in general toward the studies that lead to good position, and never really realize how much harder it is to get to the same place without having all the good connections and affiliation that make it much easier to get employed in many place.

All the people who take the hard positions where this is real responsability more & more everywhere i'm sure they are immigrants because they are the one who have true experience on the field, and about really making thing happen and not just doing protest and waiting for everything to come down even where there is already much more than what they can really afford, and it's not a short temporary problem like a short crisis, it's going on like this for about a decade if not more without any sign of the trend reverting at all.

Anyway for me the solution it's clear it's in europe, it's not in those country that a solution will be found in short term given the circumstances, and all these blocks and problem of integration in europe and all the media bashing and political instrumentalisation from right wing party is what make all these issues , people are too used to be rehashing some pre made idea about all this and are never confronted to it as a concrete problem in their everyday life, they expect everything to be like in a video game and clicking a button and all is solved and all migrant will behave like in the plan like in sim city or sims lol

Most people in europe are just totally disconnected from all this kind of problems, and only see this through biased youtube video or political channels, and all their solutions are completely irrealistic, people living in completly artifical economy and society who don't have a clue of what's really going on and what to do about it, and just want to ignore it and in the same time having the same aura as if they were enligthened heroes needing world wide assistance in their great fight against islamic and for culture, but their culture is facebook & video game most of the time it stop there and going for most simplistic explanation and doing protest when something is not going as they want.

It's clear more and more these people are scared, and all the time sort of accuse the government not to care enough about them and more about immigrants, and they probably know subconsciously that they position hold more and more just because there is the government and europe behind, than because they are really competitive on their own in the world market.

And it's clear there is already a strong pressure for a already a while from the new generation of migrants to really emerge and getting out of this stereotype that their parent have got into in the previous generations, but it's very hard to get there, and the days where sarkozy was speaking about the karsker are not far, he still compared the immigration to a flood in the house, morano is into her france is a white race country, even for 3rd generation today it's already facing lot of real resistance, so seeing this whole new wave it's clear some people do not see this at all from a good eye, but in the same time they never really want to do the effort and to really take responsability themselve for this, other than ressorting on extremism and fascism, it's still sad in a way to see europe still have these same old reflexes, it's specially dishearthening to see this coming from country like poland, romania , hungary who would be nothing today if europe have this same policy to close their border to them and keep their wellfare for the european economic core.

Re: MIGRANTS

#14
h0bby1 wrote:
makwaiskwew wrote:maybe quit bombing the fuck out of their countries might help with the problem.
Leaving bashar & deash and all this in the area is not very good either. There is no more bombing in lybia for a while, or in egypt, there are still many problems there.
Bombing them is not the solution either. The west is fast in pointing the finger at other governments and decide they are dictators or just 'doing it wrong'. We never ask their civilians for their opinion before we bomb their homes.
Egypt is in this much turmoil because western intervention gave big opportunities to the Muslim brotherhood and their radical friends.
I think it's a big mistake to think that we from afar correctly see a situation for what it is, let alone decide which change a country needs,  bomb it, then say 'good luck guys! See you in a few years!'

On top of that there are plenty of people in western countries that actually do think their governments are doing it wrong, but it is easier for our leaders to deflect our attention past our own border, or in the case of immigrants, to our own borders, then to the mistakes they make themselves.

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#15
There are always going to be different perspectives.

The internet has made the world a smaller place. The world is evolving and the people in it are evolving. Sometimes I think that it is through war that all the evolution takes place. 'Nothing happens, until something moves'

As a species the only way we know to bring about change sometimes is to fight for it. We never learn from the past we are still
primitive.

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#16
Abigail wrote:
h0bby1 wrote:
makwaiskwew wrote:maybe quit bombing the fuck out of their countries might help with the problem.
Leaving bashar & deash and all this in the area is not very good either. There is no more bombing in lybia for a while, or in egypt, there are still many problems there.
Bombing them is not the solution either. The west is fast in pointing the finger at other governments and decide they are dictators or just 'doing it wrong'. We never ask their civilians for their opinion before we bomb their homes.
Egypt is in this much turmoil because western intervention gave big opportunities to the Muslim brotherhood and their radical friends.
I think it's a big mistake to think that we from afar correctly see a situation for what it is, let alone decide which change a country needs,  bomb it, then say 'good luck guys! See you in a few years!'

On top of that there are plenty of people in western countries that actually do think their governments are doing it wrong, but it is easier for our leaders to deflect our attention past our own border, or in the case of immigrants, to our own borders, then to the mistakes they make themselves.
In france there is a story emblematic of this with karachi affair, when a bus of engeneer has been bombed, and authority told for ten year it was radicals but it was because of some underground buissness with retro comissions and some money owned not being given or something, it's clear also radicalism is good excuse to cover all kind of other malversatation.

But currently in egypt, lybia, daesh etc, it's just human exploitation, i don't see the situation sorting itself out there with all the traffics and terrorists and various armed groups, the migrants who want to come to europe now the sea is blocked they are parked in prison center there end of the story, and it's not all western mess either, but those people were kept at bay by qadafi or he had some buisness with them like touregs etc it kept things under control, but the mess is not all because of occidental action now either. And i don't see how it can improve there in short term even by stopping bombing and military intervention, it just leave more power to all kind of armed groups.

There are 50 000 pictures of torture practiced by bachar, and daesh they make their own propaganda themselve, in lybia & egypt the situation is rather well documented as well, in tunisia they are maybe getting somewhere, but all other country they are not going to become stable & secure on their own before long time, there is not really solution in short term to solve the situation there.
Stop the bombing it was what france was saying 15 year ago, but it's bit too late now lol The bombing now they are minimal only on daesh or some place with drone from the usa, there is not much military presence there at all.

Some years ago after the mali there was still question to make an african peace keeping force, but it didn't get anywhere at all as far as i know, the security in many place is not assured by anyone and war lords & trafficers have free reign. And they are not occidentals troop or army.


On top of that there are plenty of people in western countries that actually do think their governments are doing it wrong, but it is easier for our leaders to deflect our attention past our own border, or in the case of immigrants, to our own borders, then to the mistakes they make themselves.

And immigrants are often also the first to pay the price for these bad mangment and used as adjustment variable, and often much more aware of the whole situation too, stigmatising migrants is always good way to avoid look at their own face in the mirror both by avoiding critics from the population the more touched by it, and by obfuscating the whole issue with tons of hate speech and stereotypes.

Re: MIGRANTS

#17
cheeneka wrote:There are always going to be different perspectives.

The internet has made the world a smaller place. The world is evolving and the people in it are evolving. Sometimes I think that it is through war that all the evolution takes place. 'Nothing happens, until something moves'

As a species the only way we know to bring about change sometimes is to fight for it. We never learn from the past we are still
primitive.

LOve cheeneka x
I don't consider myself primitive and i don't think war make anything evolve or that it's the only way to make things moves, and it rarely move anything in the good direction anyway, just collective hysteria and mass murdering i don't see how that make anything evolve lol more regression, and many people actually learned that lesson, specially the one confronted to it in the first place.

Re: MIGRANTS

#18
h0bby1 wrote:
And immigrants are often also the first to pay the price for these bad mangment and used as adjustment variable, and often much more aware of the whole situation too, stigmatising migrants is always good way to avoid look at their own face in the mirror both by avoiding critics from the population the more touched by it, and by obfuscating the whole issue with tons of hate speech and stereotypes.
Yep, it's terrible. Here there have been some politicians suggesting to cherry pick the refugees, those with correct documentation that can prove they were higher educated, because, and I kid you not, the EXACT words . 'we can USE them' . The rest? Send them elsewhere.
Sickening really.
I can't say what the solution is, no one can at this point anymore I do not think. One of the problems I see is we don't allow countries to stabilize either after we intervened. We just keep prodding them once and a while if we think their way of stabilization is not in our benefits. Just like now in Syria, Russia went in to bomb IS, Nato told them to stop because some of IS are also opponents of Assad and apparently as long as they oppose Assad they are good guys. Then the Usa just approved another weapon shipment to Assad's opposition, and who is to say those weapons dont also end up in the hands of IS.
There is no way now that country can stabilize itself, even if it could on it's own, if we keep this up. Sure, leaving them be to sort it out themselves may also be wrong, who knows.
We have made an incredible mess of most of that region, and we continue to do so, from afar, without a real idea of what is needed or wanted there. And as usual, the people are the victims either way, they lost no matter what happens, whatever they do. They stay, they lose, they run, they lose, it is heartbreaking.

Re: MIGRANTS

#19
h0bby1 wrote:
cheeneka wrote:There are always going to be different perspectives.

The internet has made the world a smaller place. The world is evolving and the people in it are evolving. Sometimes I think that it is through war that all the evolution takes place. 'Nothing happens, until something moves'

As a species the only way we know to bring about change sometimes is to fight for it. We never learn from the past we are still
primitive.

LOve cheeneka x
I don't consider myself primitive and i don't think war make anything evolve or that it's the only way to make things moves, and it rarely move anything in the good direction anyway, just collective hysteria and mass murdering i don't see how that make anything evolve lol more regression, and many people actually learned that lesson, specially the one confronted to it in the first place.
I Mean in the sense of the phoenix, everything gets destroyed and is killed off, only to be rebuilt again in a different way.
Through the centuries this is how mankind has changed countries and cities. Burning them down but they always rise up again, just changed from what was there before.
It is my own personal opinion that killing is primitive.
LOve cheeneka x

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#20
Thank you. I think that is what this whole thread was about....leading to.....I am a pacifist, I can hardly stand up for myself, I sometimes think I don't have the autonomy required. We need sometimes people to help us in this world, it is not that we are inferior, it is that to help someone is to love, for someone to help us is to learn about love. We are all learning from each other even in times of war.

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#21
Sometimes we need to think like the spirit we are not the human we are...............

Spirit is eternal we can never die, not even in war..............

Life is for us to decide what life we want to live and we can live any life we want...........

Death is only for people who do not believe in eternity..........

If I die today I will be reborn tomorrow...

Until I evolve towards love. :)

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#22
@Cheneeka, don't say you can hardly stand up for yourself :) I know you can! If you can't, shoot a pm to me please, hon.
@IS37: Yea, I hear you when it comes to things we have seen and how it evolves us. You learn from them. I reflect at the hardest of times I had and realize, that when learning increased too.

As for who is taking responsibility for the state of the world, I think that's the problem, no one is, and even if someone did, the weight would be too much to bear for one person.

Somewhere, humans got separated. We are not supposed to be alone or living in a small pack, we are herd 'animals', as strange as that sounds. There can be so many people thinking the same way as we do, but, we don't know them, walk past them on the street without recognizing.

So that separation makes us, or I shouldn't say us, cause we are talking about it here, but a lot of other people, sort of immune to the suffering of others.  I think that is also where a lot of resistance to immigration comes from, with all economic stress, people are afraid, they are fending for themselves only.
Somehow we have all been burning on our survival instinct alone. Well not all of us, but a big part of any countries population, because bills, stress, drama, etc. And when you live on survival instinct, only you and who you care about matter in a lot of cases.

Sometimes I think the biggest healing would start with local communities. I try, greet the neighbors, smile and have small-talk, help someone carry their groceries home. Small stuff I know, but somehow I am hoping it'll re-spark people's memory of how communities used to be, could be again.
A month or maybe more ago,we saw a neighbor struggling to get a couch into her house, she is an older lady, kind of 'weird' in other peoples eyes. We helped her, and she actually confessed she was lonely, and she knew the rest of the neighborhood considered her 'weird'. We told her 'you are a neighbor, we live on number xx, you know where to find us. btw we are weird too! '
Last week the doorbell rang, she bought a new cellphone but couldn't figure it out and she remembered, so came to ask us. And we got it fixed. :D
Small steps.... but it made me happy.

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#23
I can't say what the solution is, no one can at this point anymore I do not think. One of the problems I see is we don't allow countries to stabilize either after we intervened. 
For me big part of the solution is already to stop thinking of europe or european countries on a racial or cultural/religious basis, what actually made europe good is not nationalism, fascism or religion, it's human right principle, principle of the republic, of equality of all in front of the law, it's this that gave everyone their freedom, allowed scientific progress, and social progress, that gave all european people their right and the welfare they can enjoy now, otherwise it would still be feudal time, inquisition, or religious totatalitarian or fascist state.
At some point need to get in the idea that there need to be room for european muslims, and european who are not christian and white, and immigrants, in all european counries, what prevail is the law and the notion of universal right, not what religion or origin or social level people are, it's this line that need to be kept in europe, otherwise it only lead to disasters for everyone.
Otherwise it become just like the nazi, and welfare ok, but not for this this this kind of people, all coming out from neurotic minds making up all kind of threat based on racial or ethnical fantasy theories and it all spiral out like a shit down the toilet eating itself. There should never be compromise on these principle of universal human right and equality before law, otherwise it become a completly different society, and it's not those principle who made europe what it is now. 
Even this whole way to associate geographical location with a particular ethnies and culture it become less and less true, with all the migrations everywhere, telecomunication, easy travaeling, i don't think you can find that much enclave anywhere with clear ethny and culture like it was 100 year ago in some place, now it's clear it's not that much local tradition that are the source of culture but medias that are more and more international, like internet, youtube, facebook, this whole paradigm of strong coupling between geographical location & ethnies & culture doesn't make much sense today.

Re: MIGRANTS

#24
Most african immigration in europe comes from ex colonies, who were before territory belonging to the country, where population already are used to colonial presence and culture, speak european language, and most economic & power structure are still owned by foreign countries, in south america it's lot the same and anytime some opposition tried to keep the resource in control of the local population they have been fought by cia or colonial power. Most of arab in france they are from algeria and evacuated from the algeria war, even algerian can move freely to france as a remain of when it was french territory and people could travel freely between each.

But this story is a long going problem, this whole situation is already present in france & uk for 50 year at least, even in big cities suburbs it can be seen clearly this mentality, like all the police all the time suspicious in all those departement, it's not even legal to buy gas in a bottle at the gas station because of supposedly it's used to burn cars, it's like already lving here you feel considered as dangerous animal no matter what, this mentality has always been present in uk & france capital, i lived both in country and in those place, it's clear the police attitude with people is very different, and not only police but whole administration and the press, media all is made to make those people feel alien and suspicious all the time.

This neo colonial mentality is a very long going thing, even if it's never really talked about openly anywhere unless there is a riot, and i'm pretty sure lot of people started to hear about the reality of all those problem in suburb with the riots in 2005 where it couldn't be covered at all, but this kind of situation has been going on for decade & decade all around paris and marseille, there is lot of the mentality that by default french people are entitled to guide all the education and thinking of african, it's very rooted in european mentality since jesuit and colonialism and followed on in enligthenment century too, the whole principle of free education like we have in france originally it was still very tainted with colonialism and cultural superiority of occident & reason by free masons, lot of african president are free masons too.

When people are already facing 3 or 4 generation of social dead end, always the same loop that come back about immigration, now it's getting on with radical islam, that all is still at the same point after 50 / 60 year of struggle like this, it's clear the amount of trust and respect for institutions is very weak. 

Specially people are fleeing from war or very bad situation they are not going to be told what to do by a bunch of racist idiot who watched too much conspiracy video on youtube, speaking in the name of republic when the face it has is always repressive and insulting, it's been already 15 year or more that people say the situation in suburb is like ticking time atomic bomb, and now racism is growing and all, with people out of youtube video telling every one how they should behave and what they should believe, it's not going to get a lot of respect and consideration, specially when the whole speech is completely hypocrit and biased and often coming from people who have never seriously studied history or anything and just seeking for some simplistic populist speech to justify radical action against a group or another in sort of virility context or idk.

Re: MIGRANTS

#25
Personally, I think the media creates a lot of the fear and anxiety. In most countries the media is censored in what it can report. In Ireland we have a broadcasting complaints commission, if the media report a story they have to give equal time to both parties concerned. If they don't they are fined. In other words negative reporting on it's own is not allowed. Maybe if this was the case everywhere we would get a more balanced picture of what is really going on in the world.

Tolerance and acceptance- Amen to that.

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#26
from my city, some picture are just next to here from our kamel :D Kurd refugee =)
[youtube]xiGg9Bysijo[/youtube]

I tried to stop, but I can not do
Hard to close my mouth when i see what happen around me
You're there to judge me but who are you you?
Stop smoking, it's been ten years since you there not arrived
You want to know if I made my pilgrimage
You do not even salat, cousin, it's serious
Yeah I took over the service and I assume
Brother, i do not of do vice when i'm using my pen
I'm not in a role, I'm not an actor
I'm a whole guy I rap around the heart
The other they rap shit and the little swallow everything
Arabs, black, Gypsies, Babtous
That's all I know to do, I'm not a sheep
You want to hear me talk presses the button
Each his grave each his mektoub
Even your mother will no do anything for you the day of the end of the world

Saw what I saw, see what I see
Unable to shut impossible to stop there
Live what i live, see what i see
Still advocate eh, still facing the State
Saw what I saw, see what I see
Unable to shut impossible to stop there
Live what i live, see what i see
Still advocate eh, still facing the State
I tried to stop, but I can not do
Hard to close my mouth when i see what happen around me
I am here to denounce, never give up
The French system that keeps offending us
There's no more job and our little brothers are lost
Between police abuse & drugs circulating in our streets
Hard to be honest in a dishonest countries
Puppets who govern us must recognize 
On the backs of the poor, the rich get richer 
Yeah they do not care and they stick us in more sheets
Yeah they do not care you got to feed your kids
Especially do not Meskine, it will make them giggles
They give the rules and you you adapt
They will gently glide it to you without qualms
They make us sleep us the same promises
Everything is planned, I reckon that the mass is cast: the hass
Saw what I saw, see what I see
Unable to shut impossible to stop there
Live what i live, see what i see
Still advocate eh, still facing the State
Saw what I saw, see what I see
Unable to shut impossible to stop there
Live what i live, see what i see
Still advocate eh, still facing the State
How long have I turned off my TV
Asks why
They tell us that the attacks and the burqa
I tried to stop, but I can not do
Hard to close my mouth when i see what happen around me
I think about the Palestinian people, the Syrian people, Tunisian, Egyptian
In short all mine
I have to position myself without hesitation
I have ideas that certainly not pass to daily news
But I do not give a fuck
Saying what i have to say 
It does some good to me, but i owe to myself to react
I owe to myself to help poor ones the one who have nothing
i have to sacrifice myself but for now I am far
I can not stand there like that plant
See my own brother die of hunger, it does not do it
But for now all i have is me and my mc and my rap
And I vowed never to say whatever

Saw what I saw, see what I see
Unable to shut impossible to stop there
Live what i live, see what i see
Still advocate eh, still facing the State
Saw what I saw, see what I see
Unable to shut impossible to stop there
Live what i live, see what i see
Still advocate eh, still facing the State

Re: MIGRANTS

#27
cheeneka wrote:Personally, I think the media creates a lot of the fear and anxiety. In most countries the media is censored in what it can report. In Ireland we have a broadcasting complaints commission, if the media report a story they have to give equal time to both parties concerned. If they don't they are fined. In other words negative reporting on it's own is not allowed. Maybe if this was the case everywhere we would get a more balanced picture of what is really going on in the world.

Tolerance and acceptance- Amen to that.

LOve cheeneka x
In france there is lot of censorship currently, i guess the idea is more to avoid inflamatory debate and keep the debates on more intelectual level, rather than inviting extremist of all kind, but that leave also lot of people out of the media, and lot of point of view are never expressed.

Re: MIGRANTS

#28
The ancient is talking lol I just saw he made a new album few days ago, quite nice =)

[youtube]UCHrhNYsGoI[/youtube]

Blood on my sheet, Palestine, Syria
The whole world has nothing to care
Blood on my sheet, racist ruling
They can't see us anymore, want to say goodbye to us
never, ever my father worked too hard
I stand there, I take everything, even if it gets me locked
Blood on my sheet, the same left and right
Hypocrites in a suit thirsty for money
Blood on my sheet
The score of the far right (right)
Marine Le Pen surrounded by big bastards
Blood on my sheet
Yeah State pimp us like big sluts, media lie to us
Blood on my sheet
They make us believe what they want, the TV becomes dangerous,  to us it speaks all alone
Blood on my sheet
I prefer watching the guignols
Thomas Njigol like that I look less like an idiot

Refrain:
Always blood on my sheet (x2)
Oh blood on my sheet (x2)
Always blood on my sheet (x2)
Oh blood on my sheet (x2)

Verse 2:
Blood on my sheet, a robber takes 10 years
A pedophile does takes 2 and often exit before
Blood on my sheet, two-speed justice
The judges become without mercies with little kids
Blood on my sheet, the suburbs still in the same stage
There's nothing that will change, 15 years to rebuild a stadium
Blood on my sheet, the little play in the garbage, they keep smiling, despite that life is beautiful
Blood on my sheet, racial discrimination
It is made, it is usual for us it is normal
Blood on my sheet, reports are freaking us
Yet it is us behind , it is we who are being filmed
Blood on my sheet, we becomes their source of revenue
Add to that a few snitches and some gossips
Blood on my sheet, nobody is united with us
We fight between each other and they sow discord
Refrain:
Always blood on my sheet (x2) Oh blood on my sheet (x2)
The charm of sadness, poverty vs. wealth, still blood on my sheet, always the same who are being hurt, always the same who are suffering

Re: MIGRANTS

#29
I have to put another spin on the whole refugee/migrant issue.  Imagining for a moment that my land and state fell into wars similar to the middle east countries, i feel that to run away looking for something better instead of standing one's ground and dealing with the home problem is an act of cowardice, possibly even treason and if not that then it should be perceived by any other country as an act of  aggression on the part of foreigners to harness resources they have no agreed rights for access to.  

   If the people are responsible for their leaders, and if leaders are responsible for the people, then i think these middle east peoples and states have made poor decisions which they should be held responsible for.   Who wants people that will run away instead of solve the problems.

   I really cant imagine running away from this land and country where i live, it isnt perfect by a long ways but its worth staying to struggle with anyone or anything that threatens to tear apart the bonds between people that make our country great.  Louis Riel is a national hero despite hanging for treason, N. Am. Aboriginal people didnt run away and are now facing up to the huge struggle of recovering from centuries of genocidal campaigning against their culture and spirituality (will they then become the Kurds of N Am under islamic totalitarianism?).

   IMO, the migrants are part of the well designed problem that is forced onto the rest of the world to solve, else, they are part of a soft attack in a covert war (why let the enemy know you are attacking them or even that you are at war).   Maybe it is all just a bunch of dumb shit coming from too many dumb shits and we should leave them all alone to clean up their dumb shit themselves, maybe think about offering help later on when the leaders and the people show a little more responsibility for themselves and their actions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPixAXbz6LA
"Death to the intellect! Long live death!" -Gonzalo Queipo de Llano
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalo_Queipo_de_Llano

Re: MIGRANTS

#30
Everyone has a different perspective that is what makes the world a much more interesting place. Maybe you are stronger than some of the people who are vulnerable and fear torture and death.

If it was me and i had children or people that i loved i would want to flee with them to a place of safety.

As i said before, 'walk a mile in my shoes'

We never know what we are going to do unless we find ourselves in the same situation, it is easy for me to sit here at my computer in a safe country and give my point of view. I do not have to worry about shelter, food or safety, they are a gift that i appreciate every day.

LOve cheeneka x

Re: MIGRANTS

#31
I have to put another spin on the whole refugee/migrant issue.  Imagining for a moment that my land and state fell into wars similar to the middle east countries, i feel that to run away looking for something better instead of standing one's ground and dealing with the home problem is an act of cowardice, possibly even treason and if not that then it should be perceived by any other country as an act of  aggression on the part of foreigners to harness resources they have no agreed rights for access to.
No revolution of this kind has succeed in industrial era, in the WW2 all resistance was anhilited , in spain with franco maybe it was tight but with help of the nazi and the whole conspiracy already after 3 year it ended the same, people are already fight there for 3 year, and those people are much more equiped than franco was, they have chemical weapon, full control on electricity, running water, they have jet planes, big artileery automatic guns, to take down hitler it took massive effort from both russia & usa, people alone cannot fight this, specially with the weapon embargo, and putin being backing the regim with ever more mass weapon, like cruise missile, usa drone bombing the whole area a bit randomly for years, there is just a point need to recognize lost cause, at the end of the conflict bachar was surrounding village of reistant and making them starve, there is not going to be any backup from any occidental country on this, putin is striking CIA backed free syrian army and zero response, it's not the regular middle people who are barber or office worker who are going to fight this mess, specially with the whole reluctance of the rest of the world to take strong side into it, other than putin who is supporting bachar who want to use all military and spying arsenal to repress and kill all opposition, in all country of the world it never worked a people revolution against a industrial military regim, there is no example of this anywhere in the world ever.

[font=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] If the people are responsible for their leaders, and if leaders are responsible for the people, then i think these middle east peoples and states have made poor decisions which they should be held responsible for.   Who wants people that will run away instead of solve the problems.[/font]
Well it's quickly erased from media and history book but there have been countless revolution attempt in those country in the 70's, specially to install more secular and more modern government in iran and a bit everywhere, but what those fighhter had in front was cia or MI6 backed governement funding extremism to target muslim regim that are all together friendly to occidental interest and never threatened them, or were severly punish like sadam golf war when they did so, all those regim they were installed by CIA/MI6 against the local population, and fight those regim is tactily and explictly fighting usa & uk imperialism.

It's what make all people there schizo with all the hypocrisy of usa & uk on these whole situation and how the media always only show one side of the story, but there have been many revolutionaries in those countries, in the line of she guvera, either it's in algeria, or in iran, or in other countries, but they were systematically faced with us / uk imperalism defending those regims against supposedly communism or other form of government that would not be favorable to usa/uk imperialism, just like they took out allende in chile to install pinochet instead and then with the contras etc it's exactly what is going on currently in the middle east except it's getting a bit out of control, and spill all over, but the only smart thing to do is to run away from there, it's much bigger thing going on there than just local conflict.

It would be completly stupid for the average civilian to get mixed in this war there, they'd have to fight all china, russia, usa drone bombing, daesh, bachar, all this with weapon embargo and no international support ? That's just completly irrealistic.



The whole paranoia on jihadist to me it really amount to this :

https://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/A ... gle_Cruise

Summary
Marco Amereti, a former American Imperial Navy Petty Officer turned serial killer, has arrived in Japan and for the last two months has murdered several women by slicing the skin off their torsos in the form of a T-shirt. American CIA officers have been dispatched to Japan, ostensibly to assist Section 9 in their effort to track down and apprehend Marco before he can strike again. When the CIA officers show no surprise at the developments in the case Ishikawa hacks into the CIA database to find out why, and learns that Marco was part of an American Empire commando team sent into the jungles of South America to conduct a covert operation aimed at breaking an enemy’s will to fight, by using terror-tactics (like flaying civilians alive). Elsewhere, Batou — an ex-JGSDF Ranger who has seen first hand the horrors of the CIA operation — resolves to stop Marco by any means necessary, but his behaviour during the case has led to suspicion that Batou may attempt to kill Marco, rather than arrest him.



All the time those psychopath they are installed and formed by CIA/MI6 to defend occidental interest and to oppress local population, not installed by the people to fight occidental interest.

Actually i guess that was very akward for occident to have to back up a supposed 'pro freedom' and anti totalitarian revolution in those country cause that mean they'd have to support regim that are far less accomodant for occidental interest than those totalitarian regims.

Even in tunisia, it's clear lot of the sparking was due to see how ben ali was totally covered by occidental interest, and was totally in cahoot with french elite like sarkozy with yaught and showing all these tight of their country leader with people that they see as their first exploiter, so it's kinda ll weird the relation with occident too in those population, and it's pretty obvious the interest of occidental country have never been to give those country right to autonomy or backing up more secular and democratic or national - communist kind of government,  and the leader like qafadi or ben ali or mubarack who they were supposedly fighting they were still again all together very 'occidental friendly' in their politics & economical leading. Not really revolutionary governement wanting to feed their people and ready to fight to defend the interest of local population, but more totally submited to global economy & exploitation without any kind of serious protection at all. And in the end the people who fought those regim turn out to be now seen as an even worst enmy with extremism/daesh or other more or less terrorist group, because in the end the interest of those revolution was not as much 'occidental cooperative' as the leader they were supposed to fight.

Re: MIGRANTS

#32
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808417/ 

[youtube]guA0GPbnryc[/youtube]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Poignant coming-of-age story of a precocious and outspoken young Iranian girl that begins during the Islamic Revolution.[/font]

this movie was very well done, and show a bit wider perspective on this whole issue of refugee from these country and the weird position they find themselve in behind shunned often by both local regim to fight for democracy and both by occidental power for being immigrants or refugee and get only insults and discrimination or face all kind of shit all along no matter what lol It's like there is no good side at all lol

It was the iranian revolution, backed by the CIA now it's official lol so it's this kind of situation where people get exiled to europe because they fight islam regim that occidentals are supposedly opposing in their speech, in the facts they are mostly supporting those regim and shunning refugee or people who are targeted by them. It's like this for 50 year since the cold war and even before in some case.

Re: MIGRANTS

#33
Well I don't know about the news you all are getting about the refugees.......I have been watching the horror for weeks. Countries closing borders people left in no mans land where they can't leave one country to get into another country. Standing for hours in rain with no food, shelter or water. Men, women and children who are just trying to survive.

Finally after months Europe has decided that the refugees do not have to face these tragic circumstances anymore, they will get free flight from the country they land in to the country they want to go to...............

Why does it always take us so long to find our common sense or even compassion.

LOve cheeneka x
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