Re: LOGIC AND SPIRITUALITY

#3
I agree with Shaj´s view.

Also In my view, logic and spirituality should be complementary and integrated as they are not really divided. For example, one person can understand spirituality through feelings and awareness while another person could understand spirituality by first doing research or using logical thinking. Some people integrate both. In the end it is all consciousness so there is no need to divide them as they can both offer valuable wisdom and awareness. We can see through different perspectives and find the common points in which they melt.

To me, the concept of logic can be very subjective in many cases. The problem with logic could be that it may be considered as strict facts leaving no room for "more"... How could this work out when different people carry different "logic" or ways of mentally processing and understanding things? What seems logical and obvious to me may seem ignorant or crazy to others and also the other way around. A big part of our logic comes from our individual mental programming and many times we use the more superficial part of our brain to process logical thinking instead of using the deeper mind; the world of magic. However, in the end, it is all consciousness so there is not division, and logic can be integrated and complement our wisdom. I believe that if something is truth, it would be possible to reach by both spiritual and logical thinking.

But even if logic may be biased sometimes, it is still very important in my opinion. It is useful to look for the understanding of things in a way which makes sense to each person. It helps being grounded. We tend to dismiss anything which we find absurd in our judgement; absurd, as of lacking any logic. In most cases we need a certain degree of logic to let some information enter our mind. But we understand and process information according to our inner wiring.

We are also intuitive which has more to do with feelings. We must wonder, which information is behind such feelings? There is a great amount of information behind our feelings and intuition (our own history is one part of the information behind this). Nothing happens just by chance, for no reason and with no cause. Even behind our intuition there will be logic and also the other way around many times. They are not or do not need to be divided but rather complementary.

There is a catch though: both our logic and our intuition carry truth and delusion. This is why we do not know it all and are open for more; this keeps us evolving and growing until we dissolve all delusions and become One with Truth.
This is why it is tricky to follow only one branch, put all faith in it and dismiss everything else. Because there will be truth and delusions in everything: science, logic, intuition, spirituality, religion, society... All carry truth and delusion and in the end, they complement each other in the search for truth (when we evolve from the perception of division).

Sometimes logic and spiritual intuition may seem divided or seem to point to 2 different directions.
For example here:

The world is overpopulated by species which have been hurtful and abusive and which may cause environmental and social challenges. The situation seems to be getting out of control...
Considering this to be truth, a logical approach could be to control population by decimating it in order to save the world from its collapse.
A spiritual approach, more aligned with empathy and compassion, could be to try to awaken the masses and to raise consciousness in order to allow the people to coexist in harmony with the planet and its creatures and / or to develop tools and technology for solving the issues and for creating a healthier society capable of living in harmony in the planet.

As we see here, there are 2 very different stances and ways to dealing with a situation. The first one, purely logical and lacking of empathy and compassion, will usually come from species or individuals who perceive themselves superior to other creatures and in their right to control them as they please (for example how we see and treat animals and how we are treated by those in power who believe themselves superior to humanity). The second mentality, more in touch with emotions, empathy and compassion, will usually come from spiritually aware people who will see themselves as equal to all the rest of living beings including animals and plants. These people understand the real value of life and honor it (and there is logic in this too, see how in the end spirituality and logic dont need to be divided? :) ).

Which is right and which is wrong?

All I can observe is that the first way of thinking and doing things, causes destruction, pain and a general lack of balance. We hurt ourselves and others in the process and walk towards our own collapse. In the second way of thinking and acting, we could be creating harmony even if the path is rough. In both ways we may be evolving, either by walking towards harmony and civilization (we are not too civilized yet as humanity) or by walking towards destruction as a way to reset and start over.

In the end, balance is necessary, to reach a point of real common sense and to be able to coexist.

Thank you for bring this up Cheneeka :)

Re: LOGIC AND SPIRITUALITY

#5
Logic is like pouring water into boxes. It depends on definitions and valuations. often historically it has been applied in a reductionist frame. Spirituality can be many approaches for many purposes sometimes the purpose not well defined and sometimes the outcome/experience is intuitively but not value-definitively boxed-up-understood. Symbolism, metaphor and emotions often play a role in spirituality approach; they are only incidental or anathema to logic.

I have been reading a book on zen and it tells stories, and while I don't fully 'understand' the stories if understaning is even the role, they do seem if they have intent to want to buck off the saddle of logic. But then I don't know how it is best to perceive if zen is meant to be spiritual or philosophical or a social construct; possibly as there is emphasis on student-teacher following relationship.

Re: LOGIC AND SPIRITUALITY

#6
Hi Clear Blue Sky.
I love your description of logic being like pouring water into boxes.
I question logic for many reasons.

I know I channel animal, plant, human and spirit. It is not logical to my human mind yet it makes perfect sense to me as a spirit. Logic is like a wall of sense that prevents us from going beyond reason sometimes. IT limits possibilities.

I think the mind needs to retrain to be open to lateral thinking. Sure there is a sense of going insane to begin with because our mind is used to reason. It takes a very strong mental strength to fight this.
I can go from communicating with animals to sweeping my kitchen floor. It wasn't always like this...! I thought i was going crazy. 😇
Now in those situation i have to think like a spirit not a human. Then i have to reverse and say think like a human not a spirit.
It's so natural now but it has taken years and years.
We need both to survive this reality logic to ground us and no logic to let us fly.
LOve Cheeneka x

Re: LOGIC AND SPIRITUALITY

#7
Hello Cheneeka

Logic is relative to each person.
Some people limit themselves with too much logic. But it is possible to be spiritual, open minded and to have room for some logic in life as well :)

I think I understand what you mean though: for example, when someone thinks or feels he/she can talk to animals and trees, most likely this person is considered delusional, crazy or out of logic by many others who will not be able to understand it or to experience it. I think that one of the greatest human diseases is narrow-mindedness. Think of the dark ages when people got burned for thinking out of the box.
Of course things are changing today and will change more and more in the coming time. But still, we may feel this kind of judgement when we experience more than it has been socially accepted.

Just for the record: I am not against logic. I find logic a nice complement for this physical life. But well, I also can communicate with animals, plants, spirits, Source... How mad this is!!! :P

In reality there is nothing un-natural about being in touch and in communication with the Universe or the different life expressions that surround us. Telepathy is the most natural communication form that I know of. So natural that even animals and plants use it. But for us humans, this is a reason for mockery and shame lol

We are funny indeed =)
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